HI ALL :
Is it possible to have TOO MUCH Housing (Houses and Gourds) that could DETER the martins from STAYING, rather than visiting at a NEW site ??? This is year 7 of trying to get the matins to come and STAY, rather than just visiting. Several local landlords have been to my site and see NO reason that they have NOT stayed. Could TOO MUCH HOUSING be my problem or would this NOT be an issue ???
I have been told by the local landlords in my area that everything at my site is A-OKAY !
What do you think ?
" Beggin4Birds "
TOO MUCH HOUSING ?
-
Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
My guess is that your site may not be open enough, that there are too many trees surrounding your place and not enough open meadows and fields in your area. I have repeatedly seen this happen around here. Martins like the open space. That is why they like to be near a lake, its the open space that attracts them. Its impossible to attract martins in the center of a hugh forest, even if the site is open enough. Along this line, the martins like open flyways that are maybe 300ft long, they are like a fighter plane and like a long flyway (they do not fly like a helicopter)
No, you can't have too much housing, extra housing gives them a choice, and it seems to help attract martins.
Its difficult for the landlord that cannot attract the martins. Within a block of my colony, there are 6 martin houses, and five of them are too close to trees, and the martins will not go there. The 6th is a nice aluminum house that is full of starlings and sparrows. I walk past this slumlords house, and when martins try to stay there, I find martin eggs beside the road that the starlings removed and dropped a short distance from the house. Then the martins quickly abandon that house
Prosperous landlords must be most concerned about predators. The open areas attract martins first because the hawks cannot catch the martins. It may be that you have too many hawks in your area, and that the martins are avoiding the hawks.
The only other thing that I can think of is a shortage of martins. It may be no spillover from nearby colonies that can come to your place. They simply go to houses that already have martins. If this is the case, then when you have an abundant martin year, then you will attract them.
Good luck, and hope that you can attract some.
No, you can't have too much housing, extra housing gives them a choice, and it seems to help attract martins.
Its difficult for the landlord that cannot attract the martins. Within a block of my colony, there are 6 martin houses, and five of them are too close to trees, and the martins will not go there. The 6th is a nice aluminum house that is full of starlings and sparrows. I walk past this slumlords house, and when martins try to stay there, I find martin eggs beside the road that the starlings removed and dropped a short distance from the house. Then the martins quickly abandon that house
Prosperous landlords must be most concerned about predators. The open areas attract martins first because the hawks cannot catch the martins. It may be that you have too many hawks in your area, and that the martins are avoiding the hawks.
The only other thing that I can think of is a shortage of martins. It may be no spillover from nearby colonies that can come to your place. They simply go to houses that already have martins. If this is the case, then when you have an abundant martin year, then you will attract them.
Good luck, and hope that you can attract some.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
-
NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
Hi EMIL and Everyone :
Our site is open and has a good fly-away for the martins. We play the dawn song and have lots of visitors for several weeks. We monitor and trap for sparrows and starlings at our site. We do NOT open houses and gourds until we see martins at our site and know that others have arrived in the area. Trees are NOT an issue. Having given your response to TOO MUCH HOUSING, your opinion is that this is NOT an issue with the martins NOT STAYING !
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ?
" Beggin4Birds "
Our site is open and has a good fly-away for the martins. We play the dawn song and have lots of visitors for several weeks. We monitor and trap for sparrows and starlings at our site. We do NOT open houses and gourds until we see martins at our site and know that others have arrived in the area. Trees are NOT an issue. Having given your response to TOO MUCH HOUSING, your opinion is that this is NOT an issue with the martins NOT STAYING !
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ?
" Beggin4Birds "
-
Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
"A good flyway" may not be enough, you may need 2 or 3 good flyways especially if there is a shortage of martins. When you say that, it makes me think that you indeed may have many trees nearby. Most people think that they have enough open spaces, so opinions vary a whole lot on whether its open enough. You asked for more thoughts, and those are mine..
Having lots of visitors also tells me that there is something at your place that they do not like, so they do not stay.
But lastly, I hope that I am wrong, and that you will get some martins soon.
Having lots of visitors also tells me that there is something at your place that they do not like, so they do not stay.
But lastly, I hope that I am wrong, and that you will get some martins soon.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
-
NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
HI EMIL :
Concerning fly-aways, our site is wide open in 3 directions. There is no shortage of martins in our area, as there are 2 colonies within 3 miles. If anything, this could be the reason for the martins VISITING and NOT STAYING ! When they visit our site, they seem to love it and act like they are right at home !
Many have told us . . . Patience, and they will come and stay ! Could this be the year ???
" Beggin4Birds "
Concerning fly-aways, our site is wide open in 3 directions. There is no shortage of martins in our area, as there are 2 colonies within 3 miles. If anything, this could be the reason for the martins VISITING and NOT STAYING ! When they visit our site, they seem to love it and act like they are right at home !
Many have told us . . . Patience, and they will come and stay ! Could this be the year ???
" Beggin4Birds "
-
Doug Martin - PA
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:47 am
- Location: Pennsylvania/Fombell
- Martin Colony History: First pair in 2009 after 28 years of trying. 3 pairs 2010, 17 pairs 2011 and 35-45 pairs since. Many additional colonies are now springing up around mine in an area once completely void of Martins. I offer 50 compartments at my site consisting of primarily Excluder II gourds on Gemini racks. Also a wooden T-14. I utilize electric fence type predator guards on the base of the poles. Supplemental feeding is crucial in maintaining my colony. I platform feed throughout the season as needed. My site tends to be a stop over point for additional birds as they migrate further north.
You can't get better advice than from Emil. So make sure you listen to what he is trying to say.
I used to think a flyway was a 50-100 ft strip out of the housing now that I finally got a pair after many years of trying I see their flyway goes clear down over the hill 250 ft. or so. i will open it even further this weekend.
I am not sure how many acres you have but my yard is 3.5 and they use a flyway in addition to that. In prior years they would visit and not stay. When i removed the pin oak that consumed the side opposite the flyway as you suggest you may have obstructed. They stayed. It was 100 ft away but the sky was now open all around the housing.
As far as too much housing..... yes the placement of some, may actually be an obstacle to another, so that it is potentially possible to have too much in that sense.. They can block each other from the flyway. These birds like to swoop and glide around the housing. Too much in a small area will take away air space.
In your situation I could strongly suggest investing in some small mirrors and mount them inside some cavities. You need to give the impression your site is active. In my opinion mirrors are the best way of doing this in addition to dawnsong and decoys.
You need overflow from the existing nearby sites. This is extremely important. Until these colonies overflow it will be difficult to start your colony. Martins will fill in there first. Dispersion through the closing of excess cavities at these sites will push them out to your site. So getting to know the landlords there is important.
Hope this helps. Just some thought. Sounds like this could be your year regardless.
Doug
I used to think a flyway was a 50-100 ft strip out of the housing now that I finally got a pair after many years of trying I see their flyway goes clear down over the hill 250 ft. or so. i will open it even further this weekend.
I am not sure how many acres you have but my yard is 3.5 and they use a flyway in addition to that. In prior years they would visit and not stay. When i removed the pin oak that consumed the side opposite the flyway as you suggest you may have obstructed. They stayed. It was 100 ft away but the sky was now open all around the housing.
As far as too much housing..... yes the placement of some, may actually be an obstacle to another, so that it is potentially possible to have too much in that sense.. They can block each other from the flyway. These birds like to swoop and glide around the housing. Too much in a small area will take away air space.
In your situation I could strongly suggest investing in some small mirrors and mount them inside some cavities. You need to give the impression your site is active. In my opinion mirrors are the best way of doing this in addition to dawnsong and decoys.
You need overflow from the existing nearby sites. This is extremely important. Until these colonies overflow it will be difficult to start your colony. Martins will fill in there first. Dispersion through the closing of excess cavities at these sites will push them out to your site. So getting to know the landlords there is important.
Hope this helps. Just some thought. Sounds like this could be your year regardless.
Doug
Last edited by Doug Martin - PA on Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Supplemental feeding plays a major role in Western Pennsylvania. Finally got my 1st pair in 2009 after 28 years of effort. The colony has grown quickly to 45 pairs that I care for. Many new colonies have now sprung up around me in the past few years as well. Where there was none.... there is many.
-
NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
HI DOUG :
Many thanks for giving us your thoughts regarding WHY the martins may not have stayed. One of my landlord friends was 14 years before he got the martins to come and stay. We have seen his site and he is now overflowing with martins. Ask him today why it took 14 years for them to come and stay and he says . . . I DON'T KNOW !!! He is in a good spot but not a perfect one. Some people have extra good locations, BUT many landlords do NOT and they get martins. I can honestly say that we have a great site compared to many other sites that we have seen. Not too many people have the PERFECT location and site, BUT there is usually a plus or minus factor for the martins at every location. WHEN and WHY they decide to come and stay is still a mystery to many of us !!!
WHAT DO YOU THINK ?
" Beggin4Birds "
Many thanks for giving us your thoughts regarding WHY the martins may not have stayed. One of my landlord friends was 14 years before he got the martins to come and stay. We have seen his site and he is now overflowing with martins. Ask him today why it took 14 years for them to come and stay and he says . . . I DON'T KNOW !!! He is in a good spot but not a perfect one. Some people have extra good locations, BUT many landlords do NOT and they get martins. I can honestly say that we have a great site compared to many other sites that we have seen. Not too many people have the PERFECT location and site, BUT there is usually a plus or minus factor for the martins at every location. WHEN and WHY they decide to come and stay is still a mystery to many of us !!!
WHAT DO YOU THINK ?
" Beggin4Birds "
-
Doug Martin - PA
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:47 am
- Location: Pennsylvania/Fombell
- Martin Colony History: First pair in 2009 after 28 years of trying. 3 pairs 2010, 17 pairs 2011 and 35-45 pairs since. Many additional colonies are now springing up around mine in an area once completely void of Martins. I offer 50 compartments at my site consisting of primarily Excluder II gourds on Gemini racks. Also a wooden T-14. I utilize electric fence type predator guards on the base of the poles. Supplemental feeding is crucial in maintaining my colony. I platform feed throughout the season as needed. My site tends to be a stop over point for additional birds as they migrate further north.
I believe they come and stay initially most likely because they "have' to not because they "want' to.
They are such creatures of habit... and have the habit of nesting where there are others of their kind. If there is room there, that's were they will prefer to nest. Not at your new site with no Martins no matter how inticing the site is. The female is especially that way.
For years my yard was full of housing and would be visited often. For years no nesters. They would eventually nest at the nearby site that had 40 pairs but room for 10 more. That's where the female wants to be.
It is when these sites were full to the brim and a subbie made a habit of spending the summer at my site that he managed to bond to it. He probably did it because he had to and was an outcast at his birthing site.
Personally i got up at the break of dawn to ensure daily visits went well. There are always intruders or other birds claiming this territorry of houses. I would police the area during visiting hours. With my pellet gun. The longer you can get them to stay the better.
Get some mirrors either from old makup compacts or at walmart for parakeets. Tricks them better than anything into thinking other Martins are there.
Good luck and keep us posted. OH and say a prayer too.
Doug
They are such creatures of habit... and have the habit of nesting where there are others of their kind. If there is room there, that's were they will prefer to nest. Not at your new site with no Martins no matter how inticing the site is. The female is especially that way.
For years my yard was full of housing and would be visited often. For years no nesters. They would eventually nest at the nearby site that had 40 pairs but room for 10 more. That's where the female wants to be.
It is when these sites were full to the brim and a subbie made a habit of spending the summer at my site that he managed to bond to it. He probably did it because he had to and was an outcast at his birthing site.
Personally i got up at the break of dawn to ensure daily visits went well. There are always intruders or other birds claiming this territorry of houses. I would police the area during visiting hours. With my pellet gun. The longer you can get them to stay the better.
Get some mirrors either from old makup compacts or at walmart for parakeets. Tricks them better than anything into thinking other Martins are there.
Good luck and keep us posted. OH and say a prayer too.
Doug
Supplemental feeding plays a major role in Western Pennsylvania. Finally got my 1st pair in 2009 after 28 years of effort. The colony has grown quickly to 45 pairs that I care for. Many new colonies have now sprung up around me in the past few years as well. Where there was none.... there is many.
-
Carlton
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 6:42 pm
- Location: Florida/Deerfield Beach
- Martin Colony History: I moved to South Florida, from Delaware, in August of 2015.
I care for a 6 condo Sunset House as well as two Deluxe Gourd Racks, with 24 Chirpynest/Excluder gourds, along a canal in Pompano Beach, Florida.
At Quiet Waters Park, nearby in Deerfield Beach, I care for a Deluxe Gourd Rack with 12 TVG's. I also care for a Deluxe Gourd rack with 12 Excluder gourds with Modified Excluder entrances. I am substituting 6 Chirpynest boxes for 6 of the Conley II entranced gourds in 2026.
At another local park, Tradewinds Park in Coconut Creek, I care for a Trendsetter 12, 5 gourds rack with 60 Excluder gourds with Modified Excluder Entrances and 1 Deluxe Gourd Rack with 12 Troyer Vertical Gourds with Starling Stoppers over the Conley II's to keep out smaller starlings.
Too much housing - NO! Not in my opinion.
Play the Dawnsong CD even during the day if you can.
My family lives in Frederick County, MD and I know that most of the county is very open with the exception of the mountains. My sister always had barn swallows out there at Yellow Springs.
If you can tell me the locations of some occupied martin housing in Frederick County please let me know where to look. I would enjoy driving by and looking from the car when I go visit my mom and sisters in Frederick. I know that Sue told me there is a good sized wooden martin house over in the Fort Detrick area but I have not looked for it yet. She said it never has martins.
Good luck with your martins. I am sure they are around. You just need to get that first pair! I know there are hawks in Frederick County but no more than other places.
Carl
Play the Dawnsong CD even during the day if you can.
My family lives in Frederick County, MD and I know that most of the county is very open with the exception of the mountains. My sister always had barn swallows out there at Yellow Springs.
If you can tell me the locations of some occupied martin housing in Frederick County please let me know where to look. I would enjoy driving by and looking from the car when I go visit my mom and sisters in Frederick. I know that Sue told me there is a good sized wooden martin house over in the Fort Detrick area but I have not looked for it yet. She said it never has martins.
Good luck with your martins. I am sure they are around. You just need to get that first pair! I know there are hawks in Frederick County but no more than other places.
Carl
-
NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
HI DOUG and CARLTON :
I pretty much have done what you both have suggested in the past and I will continue to follow thru doing much of what you have said and much of what I have continued to do every year.
I have everything ready to go for the first arrivals. Everything seems RIGHT with my site and I am ready for them. Don't know much else to do but monitor my site, be patient, and wait !!!
Hope this year that I DON'T have to be known as " Beggin4Birds " !!!!!! So far this name has been appropriate, but hopefully this will be the LAST year and this will change also. Quite tired of " Beggin4Birds " ! Martins and a name change are hopefully on the way.
FOR NOW . . . . " Beggin4Birds "
I pretty much have done what you both have suggested in the past and I will continue to follow thru doing much of what you have said and much of what I have continued to do every year.
I have everything ready to go for the first arrivals. Everything seems RIGHT with my site and I am ready for them. Don't know much else to do but monitor my site, be patient, and wait !!!
Hope this year that I DON'T have to be known as " Beggin4Birds " !!!!!! So far this name has been appropriate, but hopefully this will be the LAST year and this will change also. Quite tired of " Beggin4Birds " ! Martins and a name change are hopefully on the way.
FOR NOW . . . . " Beggin4Birds "
-
Carlton
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 6:42 pm
- Location: Florida/Deerfield Beach
- Martin Colony History: I moved to South Florida, from Delaware, in August of 2015.
I care for a 6 condo Sunset House as well as two Deluxe Gourd Racks, with 24 Chirpynest/Excluder gourds, along a canal in Pompano Beach, Florida.
At Quiet Waters Park, nearby in Deerfield Beach, I care for a Deluxe Gourd Rack with 12 TVG's. I also care for a Deluxe Gourd rack with 12 Excluder gourds with Modified Excluder entrances. I am substituting 6 Chirpynest boxes for 6 of the Conley II entranced gourds in 2026.
At another local park, Tradewinds Park in Coconut Creek, I care for a Trendsetter 12, 5 gourds rack with 60 Excluder gourds with Modified Excluder Entrances and 1 Deluxe Gourd Rack with 12 Troyer Vertical Gourds with Starling Stoppers over the Conley II's to keep out smaller starlings.
I hope this is the year your purple ship comes in too!
-
birdy girl
- Posts: 1179
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:09 am
- Location: Mississippi/Dumas
You have received some very good advice and hopefully you will get martins this year. Can you post a picture of your site? If you have open site and nearby colonies it may just take a female martin choosing to stay at your site. We cut trees, put up mirrors, played dawnsong, put mud on housing, put nesting material in houses, put up decoys and yes there was a very small nearby colony. I think the most important thing we did was cut trees, played dawnsong, and put up a variety of housing. I think the more housing the better. Post a picture and we can maybe give more advice on what might help you attract martins. Good luck and hope you get martins this year.
-
NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
HI birdy girl :
Wanted to reply back to you and let you know that I have already done EVERYTHING that you suggested in your posting ! The ONLY thing left to do is wait and be patient and I mean that is ONLY thing left for me to do !
Any more ideas ???
" Beggin4Birds "
Wanted to reply back to you and let you know that I have already done EVERYTHING that you suggested in your posting ! The ONLY thing left to do is wait and be patient and I mean that is ONLY thing left for me to do !
Any more ideas ???
" Beggin4Birds "
-
JJ Jones
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:08 am
- Location: Shelbyville, Indiana
- Martin Colony History: Average (100) pairs per season
If you would please forward me several picture shots at different angles of your martin setup.
Thanks!
JJ Jones
Shelbyville, IN
My email address is: [email protected]
Thanks!
JJ Jones
Shelbyville, IN
My email address is: [email protected]
-
NOMORE-Beggin4Birds
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:21 am
- Location: Walkersville, MD
Hi JJ Jones :
Would love to have photos of my site for you to see. For several reasons I am unable to do photos at this time. Hopefully, I will plan on getting this done in the near future. I have many good friends that are martin landlords and they visit and frequent my site from time to time. They have high hopes that the martins will arrive soon at my site and STAY this year. Everything is ready for them and the welcome mat is out !
Hopefully, next year I will NOT be " Beggin4Birds " anymore and they will be here to STAY !
UNTIL THEN . . . I AM STILL
" Beggin4Birds "
Would love to have photos of my site for you to see. For several reasons I am unable to do photos at this time. Hopefully, I will plan on getting this done in the near future. I have many good friends that are martin landlords and they visit and frequent my site from time to time. They have high hopes that the martins will arrive soon at my site and STAY this year. Everything is ready for them and the welcome mat is out !
Hopefully, next year I will NOT be " Beggin4Birds " anymore and they will be here to STAY !
UNTIL THEN . . . I AM STILL
" Beggin4Birds "
-
Doug Martin - PA
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:47 am
- Location: Pennsylvania/Fombell
- Martin Colony History: First pair in 2009 after 28 years of trying. 3 pairs 2010, 17 pairs 2011 and 35-45 pairs since. Many additional colonies are now springing up around mine in an area once completely void of Martins. I offer 50 compartments at my site consisting of primarily Excluder II gourds on Gemini racks. Also a wooden T-14. I utilize electric fence type predator guards on the base of the poles. Supplemental feeding is crucial in maintaining my colony. I platform feed throughout the season as needed. My site tends to be a stop over point for additional birds as they migrate further north.
Cheers to your new name after this season.
"Brimm'in with Birds" LOL
I suggest you change it now just for good luck!! Don't forget to pray for them too.
Doug
"Brimm'in with Birds" LOL
I suggest you change it now just for good luck!! Don't forget to pray for them too.
Doug
Supplemental feeding plays a major role in Western Pennsylvania. Finally got my 1st pair in 2009 after 28 years of effort. The colony has grown quickly to 45 pairs that I care for. Many new colonies have now sprung up around me in the past few years as well. Where there was none.... there is many.
-
John Miller
- Posts: 4863
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
I bet one or two nearby colonies are growing, but not yet at full occupancy. So these sites attract the new martins..because martins want to be with martins. But all you need is one pair...
I am a little uneasy with too much vacant housing. No one really knows if there's anything detrimental to your chances. We probably can find examples of such setups finally getting colonized. But after this time, I think I would only raise my housing that you think martins like best, ideally a mix of a house and a few gourds to offer variety.
Some landlords smear mud around the entrances to look like martins have been using it. Some also spread mud around in corners of the cavities or nest trays, along with pine straw or chopped up straw. Yes..maybe grasping at straws, but won't hurt to try. And some people have even tried old nests, but those are just riddled with pretty disgusting bugs and the scaley stuff from feather shafts of growing babies (too much info!), so let's not go there.
Good luck to you..keep trying.
John M
I am a little uneasy with too much vacant housing. No one really knows if there's anything detrimental to your chances. We probably can find examples of such setups finally getting colonized. But after this time, I think I would only raise my housing that you think martins like best, ideally a mix of a house and a few gourds to offer variety.
Some landlords smear mud around the entrances to look like martins have been using it. Some also spread mud around in corners of the cavities or nest trays, along with pine straw or chopped up straw. Yes..maybe grasping at straws, but won't hurt to try. And some people have even tried old nests, but those are just riddled with pretty disgusting bugs and the scaley stuff from feather shafts of growing babies (too much info!), so let's not go there.
Good luck to you..keep trying.
John M
-
Guest
Beggin4Birds,
What kind of housing are you offering? What kind of entrances do they have? What type of housing are the PM landlords that live close by using? You may want to try and set your sight up to look just like one that is close by. I think this might help you steal some martins from the neighbors and get you started.
Good Luck
Randy
What kind of housing are you offering? What kind of entrances do they have? What type of housing are the PM landlords that live close by using? You may want to try and set your sight up to look just like one that is close by. I think this might help you steal some martins from the neighbors and get you started.
Good Luck
Randy
-
Sandy - NC
- Posts: 617
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:40 pm
- Location: Rocky Mount, NC
Hang in there and don't give up. It took me over 10 years to get a colony started, and last year, in my fifth year as a landlord, I had 83 pair. During those 10+ years, I too, had many well established landlords come by and inspect my site, and none could understand why I couldn't get started. Finally, out of desparation, I took my father's advice and changed out a couple of my white gourds for natural colored ones. That is what did the trick for me. Now that I am established, I have only one brown gourd up and that is to honor my now deceased father who told me that the martins hadn't read the books, nor been on the internet.
It sounds as if you are doing everything right. Now, all you need is that "magic" FEMALE that wants to be a pioneer and get a colony started. You can attract all the males (ASY adn SY) you want, but until you can get one of the pioneering "A" personality type FEMALES, your colony won't get started. Just keep on keeping on and it will happen.
It sounds as if you are doing everything right. Now, all you need is that "magic" FEMALE that wants to be a pioneer and get a colony started. You can attract all the males (ASY adn SY) you want, but until you can get one of the pioneering "A" personality type FEMALES, your colony won't get started. Just keep on keeping on and it will happen.