End of Season Clean Out - Please be Careful

[Linda Reynolds]

Please be VERY careful before cleaning your gourds and housing at the end of the season. This is our first experience with this, but thought alerting others might avoid a nasty accident.

Upon returning from our vacation, we noticed a lot of insect activity in one of our gourds. I am scared to death of anything that has a stinger and goes BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Hummingbirds and other insects that BUZZZZZZ are fine, but STINGER is the operative word.

Either honeybees or paper wasps are building a nest/hive inside of one of our natural gourds. The gourd is located on our temporary SY rack that cannot be lowered or raised. Activity level is VERY high. The gourd they are using is an unused gourd on our temporary (SY deterrent) rack. It contains nothing but pre-nest material.

If they are honeybees, I will certainly try to locate a bee keeper and ask if they want the colony starter. However, I was not 100% sure of their identity because I could not get a good view. This afternoon, I placed a ladder near the gourd and climbed to eye-level, using binoculars, I now believe they are honeybees.

I am in the process of trying to find a bee keeper that might want to add them to their colony.

Please be careful when cleaning your gourds or housing. Never know what you might find, and it might hurt you.

[Donnie Hurdt MN]

Linda, how many bees are there in that gourd? Honeybees ususlly swarm with hundreds of bees, it seems unlikely that they would pick such a small new home there would be no room for them to make new honeycombs for wintertime feeding or room for their larva hatchery.

[Linda Reynolds]

Donnie, so good to hear from you.......

First let me say, I know NOTHING about bees, except for the fact honeybees are good, and need to be preserved and protected.

I do not know how many bees are in the gourd, but in and out activity is high. Initially, I thought they might be paper wasps, as I have read about them in the Update and on posts on The Forum. I placed a 6' ladder about 10' from the gourd and watched them with binoculars, and do not believe they are paper wasps. They are *rounder* and not as sleek as the paper wasp and they do not have a defined waist.

Upon discovery on Thursday, I called an experienced martin landlord/friend for advice. They said that they once or twice experienced honeybees using their gourds. They also told me the same as you reported.....a gourd is not big enough to house enough food for winter survival.

Do you think they could be anything other than honeybees?

I can handle snakes, trapped raccoons, possum, and an occasional skunk, but turn into a lily-livered sissy when it comes to insects with stingers.........As best I could, I tried to identify the residents, and still think they are honeybees, but certainly open to consider other options.

I am trying to contact a beekeeper in our area, but will probably have to wait until Monday in order to call the Farming Extension Bureau. A personal friend in the area, and the lady at our feed supply store could not offer much help.

[Robert McCallum]

Although I don't consider myself an expert I once had up to seven colonies of bees. I can assure you that they are not bees. Bees only form colonies when they swarm in the months around April and May or so and will never use a small housing such as any gourd.

Probably wasps.

Bob McCallum

[LNCummins]

If those are possibly yellow jackets ,OUCH! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jacket

[Gary-La]

Quite a few years ago, at the end of the season, I had a swarm of honey bees take over a natural gourd, see picture. Is this what your experiencing ? They inhabited the gourd for a couple days then moved on.

[John & Linda - KY]

I second the comment about yellow jackets. They look similar to honey bees but are smaller and WAY more aggressive. Most often they nest in the ground, but we had a nest last year in a hollow formed by the supports of our deck. After talking to some people, I applied regular dustings of sevin dust and that took care of them in about a month. -- John

[Louise Chambers]

I've seen both honeybees and yellow jackets move into martin gourds. The honeybees built many layers of wax combs and overwintered (this was in PA); the gourd was so heavy that it bent the metal hanging arm to the ground!

Yellow jackets will have a grey paper nest shaped like a football, I would much prefer to deal with honeybees. Safest way to handle the wasps is to wait till colder weather ( early morning) and slip a clear plastic bag over the whole gourd, then place it in a freezer. Don't spray insecticide to kill the wasps if it's a natural gourd, it would be difficult to be sure the gourd was safe for martins after soaking it with spray.

Louise

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I had red wasps inside my 8in pole guards, they found an opening at the top that was large enough for them to enter. I sprinkled some sevin dust on the area where they entered, and later saw some dead on the ground.

Sevin dust on the porch may stop them, I think it will...No need to buy any other insecticide, I used what I had available.

[Louise Chambers]

Emil,

I have had lots of trouble with those red wasps killing my monarch butterfly caterpillars. They have nested here in an empty, stored martin house outside, under inverted flower pots, and in patio lights. Got to ID them. I was leaving them alone thinking they were martin food but sure don't like them killing all my caterpillars.

Louise

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

They are considered beneficial insects, but their sting hurts so much, many parts of my body hurt no matter where they sting me, so for that reason, I get rid of them. They put me down for about 12 hours, and I hate them. The yellow jackets affect me the same way, and they like to build on our porches and under the eaves of the house

[Linda Reynolds]

Thank you all for reading, and replying to this post. I am still not sure what is inhabiting the gourd. They are fast and difficult to photograph without running the risk of being stung.

Last evening some began to cluster outside the gourd, near the entry. Those numbers increased as darkness fell. It appears that the population is growing, or the space inside the gourd is being filled.

I managed to capture a few photos, however, the lighting was poor and I was fearful of getting any closer. I hope one of these photos might enable someone with more experience to make a positive identification.

The first photos shows them beginning to gather outside of the entry.

Second photo shows a possible body ID.

Third photo provides a possible body and wing ID.

Fourth photo shows the numbers growing as darkness increases.

Fifth photo shows a possible leg ID. I read that sometimes the leg shape helps to identify bees, wasps, or yellow jackets.

Thanks again for your assistance........and please *BEE* careful when cleaning your gourds or housing.

[Louise Chambers]

they look like honeybees to me... bzzzzzzz....

[John Barrow]

Hi Linda,
Those are definitely honey bees, which are not hard to deal with. I don't think you have Africanized bees that far north, and if they were "killer bees" you would have most likely been attacked already.

I have had honey bees occupy at least three of my gourds in the past, and if left alone, they will occupy the interior and begin making a honey comb within about a week, which will gradually consume the gourd and render it useless for martins without a lot of messy cleanout.

However, honey bees are generally very docile unless stepped, pinched or otherwise threatened. You can lower your system and take off the gourd without being stung. Move slowly, try not to appear afraid (ignore the bees), and untie or unhook the gourd and take it to a remote location. Bees might be flying around you, but rarely will they sting you. You can then leave the bees intact inside the gourd-they are certainly beneficial, or have a beekeeper remove the swarm. The bees will stay with the "queen bee", and as long as she stays in the gourd they will stay around her. If she leaves, they will go with her. You could get them to leave the gourd by smoking them out.

I had some beekeepers remove a hive ifrom a gourd in Corpus Christi a few years back. Two men--one about 85 years old and the other was 91. They showed up in white bee coveralls, saw they were honey bees, and did not even put on their bee hats (a hat with mosquito netting to shield their face). The bees filled the gourd and overflowed outside, making the gourd appear to have a beard. The beekeepers walked up with a vacuum cleaner attached to a screened in cage, and began vacuuming the bees into the cage. they first vacuumed off the beard and then vacuumed the interior through the access lid. When the queen was vacuumed into the screened cage, the remaining bees swarmed down to the queen around the exterior of the cage, and they left with the swarm for their own use. I paid the guys $50 to remove the bees, and it was worth every penny to watch these old guys work and listen to the stories they told. Unfortunately a few bees remained inside the gourd and a week or so later when I reached in to remove nesting material and clean out the gourd, I grabbed 3 or 4 of the remaining bees and was stung on my hand. Luckily, I am not real allergic to them and the pain only lasted a minute or two.

The other bee swarms I had I removed the gourd myself and was never stung. It should be mentioned though, that if you are allergic to bee stings, they can be very toxic, even fatal. And I recommend protecting at least your eyes when you are removing a swarm.

Please let us know how this goes. A video would be great.

[Matt F.]

Great post Linda!

That would be a bad surprise!

I was hoping somewhere in this thread, Louise was going to refer to the "zippiness" of these insects.

Louise has the best descriptions!

[Linda Reynolds]

Good news........I called the local University of Tennessee - Department of Agriculture office, and was given the names of three beekeepers in our area.

One gentleman called me back, but was out of town and unable to visit. Another kindly offered to visit with us this evening and remove the bees. He was very informative, excited, and extremely happy I wanted them to have a home rather than killing them.

Although the third gentleman already hosts 250 colonies, and does not need bees, he will take them in case gentleman #2 does not want them. I explained what I was observing and he informed me that the bees were probably congregating outside of the gourd because of the heat. He told me that many times bees will gather outside of the hive when the temperatures rise. Perhaps that is the most reasonable explanation as to what we witnessed last evening.

I got a real kick out of gentleman #3 when he told me in case I developed an interest in beekeeping, he sold the equipment needed. Although I respect the little creatures, enjoy the honey that they produce, hosting bees is not something I can see happening in my lifetime.

We are due to get some storms this evening, the skies are darkening, and I hope this does not delay the beekeeper's visit. I hope I can get some good photos of the removal process.

Thanks again to all that replied. I will let you know how it goes, and when I have some honey for sale......(kidding).

This latest episode has certainly provided some new *purple martin-related* experiences for us. We have hosted martins for 7 years, and can deal with the snakes, raccoons, and other predators, but this is the first time we have had to deal with bees. Interesting and exciting experiences are always welcomed at our place, so we are now thrilled to learn some more about something we never experienced.

P.S. Thanks Matt, and John B. for your latest replies. Matt, I agree, Louise is always very descriptive when posting, and usually puts a smile on my face. I was hoping to save some other landlord from finding an unexpected surprise.

John B...........You are a very brave man! The beekeeper visiting us tonight told me he does not charge for this service. He said that he loves bees, and would rather remove them then have homeowners kill them. Killing them never once entered my mind, but their presence sure does slow down the gourd cleanout process.

[Louise Chambers]

Matt,

I am glad you enjoy posts that describe bees and wasps as zippy and hummers as honkers. I find observing the natural world is a lot of fun, and gain more enjoyment by trying to share the fun with others. My inner kid is not very far under the surface, and neither is the inner kid in anyone who finds that nature makes them go WOW

Louise

[Matt F.]

Just promise to keep 'em coming Louise.

They always provide me with a much needed chuckle and smile.....

[Robert McCallum]

In spite of my previous post they do look like honey bees. They are very confused bees, however. You should ask them what they are doing there.

An old beekeeper who helped me with mine used to get rid of bees in cases like that by placing a piece of "no-pest strip insecticide" which is available at big-box stores and such places. Then plug the entry. I feel that the insecticide would not remain in the gourd like a spray but that would be a consideration. I did that once when some of my bees took up residence in the walls of a house. No problem.

Bob McCallum

[Linda Reynolds]

Bob, *the beekeeper* arrived about 20 minutes ago. He confirmed they were honeybees, and asked for a ladder.

This gourd was hanging on our temporary rack that cannot be raised or lowered. I explained the only entry was in front, as the elbow vent has screening applied to the bottom and the access port was plugged.

**Beekeeper Bob** plugged the gourd with a pool noodle that I offered, and snipped the gourd from the hanger. He then loaded it into the bed of his truck. I believe he is going to use this small colony to try to restart his colony that he lost due to some kind of beetle that kills the bees. He said he sure misses his bees and wants to get started up again.

I am so very grateful for his generous kindness. I traded him the gourd for his services and am mighty glad the bees now might have a permanent home, and the SREH gourd will find a home at his son's house. I gave him my number just in case his son wants to know more about the tunneled SREH crescent with a double wide porch.

All is well than ends well...........and we sure had a happen ending tonight.