TRES ARE BACK

[Guest]

Hi everyone.

While having my coffee this morning, two Tree Swallows landed on our gourd racks. For those who don't remember, we let the swallows have the gourds we were hoping to get Martins in. I am assuming they are the same ones we had last year. Do they come back to the same nests every year? I would still like to have martins, but don't want to run off the Swallows. Swallows and Bluebirds are better than no birds. I still have gourds on the other side of the pond, so maybe the Martins will go there.
We were hoping the Swallows would go to the other side, but they like it where they are. Anyone have any thoughts on this situation? NORMA

[Louise Chambers]

hi Norma,

When I lived in PA, I had to keep Tree Swallows out of martin gourds, and they clearly wanted a gourd. I had a couple of bluebird boxes up near the martin rack, one box for Tres, one for bluebirds. I plugged all the martin gourds so the tres would build in a box. Once they had a nest going I thought it would be safe to unplug the martin gourds.

I had the rack lowered and was working away, when out of the corner of my eye I saw a small bird, wings beating furiously, hovering in front of the gourd right next to me. Those swallows wanted a gourd so bad! So I gave them one, but not on the martin rack. I removed one gourd and moved it to a 5 ft pole about 25 ft or so from martin rack. The martin gourds were plugged again and the rack raised to wait until the swallows were fully committed to their gourd.

So, I suggest you plug ALL the gourds on your martin systems, and offer two gourds for the swallows. Put them on shepherd's hooks or similar, and place about 25 ft or so from each of your two martin systems. Don't let the swallows have a place in the martin racks or they will run the martins off. You can have them all, be firm with those little guys, the rambos of the swallow world

Louise

[~Ray~Gingerich]

Several years ago I had tree swallows take over my gourd rack, they were chasing any martins coming in to check out the gourds. I plugged up the openings in the gourd rack and set up a gourd special for the tres and placed a little more than the recommend distance away.When the tres accepted that gourd I opened the gourd rack, things were going good until a subbie came in to check the gourd rack, the tree swallows still chased him off.

[KathyF]

Great instructions here for dealing with BB's and TRES issues with your martin housing.

http://www.drugfreeworkplace.com/~Dan/E ... gency.html


I followed the instructions here and last year, I had harmony between all three and the TRES fledged 5 babies with the BB's fledging 3 broods of 4-5 each brood.

[Dan Drew]

Kathy, I appreciate your endorsement of the "interference protocol." Many have found it useful. There may still be thousands of "would be" and wanabe Landlords out there who are not getting Martins because of tree swallow interference.

The problem of TS interference is NOT a significant problem at established Martin colonies... nor outside the TS breeding range... which prompts me to direct a question to Normajean: Are you sure your swallows are tree swallows?

I see from Mapquest that there are TWO Piedmonts in Alabama; and even if you are in the northern one (near Huntsville) you are quite a bit south of what is usually thought of as the breeding range of the tree swallow. I have heard from good teachers that the southern border of Tennesee ...i.e. "the northern borders of Alabama and Georgia" is a good general way to remember the southern border of the TRES breeding range.

I'm not writing this to make you feel silly! In fact, it would be important to know if you are certain you have TRES breeding there; as it would educate us all about the TRES. Their range, might even be expanding. The truth is, if your swallows like gourds, then they are probably indeed tree swallows. Gourds are EXACTLY what they prefer in Indiana and many other places.

Please respond, as I'm sure I'm not the only one eager to get a confirmation that you have tree swallows breeding quite a distance "south of the border." [How far is it to Tennesee?]

And to answer your question, YES, they do tend to return to where they have bred successfully... and it seems their offspring probably do too since they will know the food sources and geography of the place. They winter in Florida and Central America and are returning RIGHT NOW in a pattern and sequence just about 2 weeks ahead of the purple martins; so I am not surprised your post appeared when it did.

Good luck with the protocol! I hope you have the same luck Kathy and I had with it. I checked the link and it is working! Although I live in Indianapolis, I am in Florida as I write this message; and I have seen some of the pretty little things "on the way back!"

Dan Drew ~~ Indianapolis

P.S. to Kathy: I "grew up" in Sedalia from 1948 - 1954. My dad built all the REA (rural power lines) in your county. I remember visiting Licking as a kid; and I wish you luck with your martins. Your comment on global warming made me grin!

[Guest]

They have definately expanded their range more than what's on that map. Ron Vasser (Rome, GA) lives just across the AL/GA line from Piedmont and he has several pairs of TRES each year.

[1 Ron Vasser]

This is the 6th year I've had TS. My first this year on his box calling for his mate.

[Guest]

Ron, I like the bonus ladybug!

[KathyF]

Dan,
You're welcome! I have it bookmarked and send it to everyone that is interested in birding. I'm so happy that you keep it up on the website!

It worked like a charm here and I am now looking forward to everyone's return instead of dreading it.

We moved to Licking 2.5 years ago and built a house here. The cost of living is so cheap. The area here is beautiful .... AND martin rich!

Best of luck to you this season also!

[Guest]

Hi Dan, and all others interested in TRES. I didn't know what the birds were when they came last year, so I had to check with the friendly forum. After sending a picture, everyone agreed they were indeed TRES. Last year, I gave up on getting Martins and we let them have our gourd rack. I'm sure the ones that are here now, are from last year and they want the same gourds. We have Gourds, Bluebird houses., Swallow houses, a Coates Watersedge and a two story Quad Pod spread out all around the pond. Since the swallows want the gourds close to the house, we are thinking about moving the Quad Pod and some more gourds to the other side of the pond and maybe get some Martins. I wanted them closer because it is a lot easier for monitoring. A hawk got a bird while we were sitting on the porch yesterday. Could we move the gourd rack with the TRES in it to the other side? They haven't starting nesting yet. A neighbor has a white Pigeon that comes back every year and nests in his garage. We have a good supply of white feathers. By the way, Piedmont is about 70 miles south of Chatanooga. Ron Vasser is about the same distance East of us. Norma

[Louise Chambers]

Normajean,

I would just give the TRES one gourd, that's all they need. If you move one gourd to the other side and put it on single pole or crook, and add snake guard, they will be happy with that. Plug remaining gourds so they will be available for martins. With your good supply of white feathers, those TRES should feel very pampered. They are great little birds

Louise

[KathyF]

Normajean,
I agree with Louise. Besides TRES will not nest like martins do - they require at least 100' between them. BB's and TRES can nest closely together (after some initial quarreling).

Check out this very informative site on TRES. There are more links on the left side, after clicking on this link.

http://www.treeswallowprojects.com/putupbox.html

[Dan Drew]

Kathy & Norma Jean,

After reading the link Kathy supplied, I have to issue a warning!

FIRST AND FOREMOST, this site, although well done and interesting, is NOT at all focused on the issue of starting a martin colony. Martins are not even mentioned on that website. In fact, many of the "rules" there might have to be broken.. and may safely be broken... if your intention is to start a martin colony in the middle of tree swallow territory. I would "lock in" to the advice of Kathy and Louise and the "protocol" I have on line. Managing TRES interference is much more important than managing TRES, if you want to get martins.

To get martins, the idea is to put primary importance on taking advantage of the TRES habits and turn them to your advantage. They are SOLITARY NESTERS and fiercely territorial against members of their own species for distances of up to 100 feet or more. This fierce defense of their nest against other tree swallows is what you wish to use to protect your proposed martin housing.

As for the issue of avoiding TRES housing near water... forget that one for now. [We don't all enjoy acres and acres of land on which to configure for our bird guests.] I live on an urban lake and can tell you (as many others can) that TRES will nest and breed safely and happily at water's edge. A predator guard is always a good idea, of course.

If you propose to get a martin colony started near water, then you must go right ahead and follow the geometry of the protocol... even if it means you put your designated TRES housing right at or near water's edge. You will notice on the protocol's website, there is a photo of a designated TRES gourd right at water's edge; and that was, indeed, the TRES nest that provided the protection that allowed me to get martins. My statistics are almost like Kathy's. I started with a single brood and grew to a population of nearly 100 martins at (third) season's end last year. I am also adding housing this year.

Good luck! ~Dan

P.S. It does, indeed, seem like the tree swallow breeding range is expanding. Quite interesting! Google "tree swallow breeding range." Others are noticing the appearance of TRES in your latitudes.

[Guest]

Hey Ron you have a PM!

[Dan Drew]

If Bang's post is a special brand of Tennessee humor or a private joke between him and Ron, then it should be handled off line. I'd suggest it should be taken down from the forum. Folks are trying to learn and teach and mentor here!

I was not the first, nor will I be the last to experience heartache from not knowing the difference between TS and PM as a rookie. Normajean is obviously not a rookie and neither is Ron, whose photo of a tree swallow is a classic.

This thread has had hundreds of hits. Please... no more contamination. Let the learning and teaching and sharing go on.

Dan

[flyin-lowe]

Unless I missed something I think that Bang was telling Ron that he has a PM (Private Message) not a purple martin. Excuse me if I missed something but that's what it looked like to me.

[Dan Drew]

You are probably right... and it was probably my mistake for being behind on cyber-abbreviations. I apologize for any undeserved feather ruffling... especially if Bang is known to be a credible poster. [I do not monitor the forum very regularly.]

The post was, all the same, at least ambiguous... and, from what you imply it was inadvertent. I hope we can all start over... and agree that Ron's photo is unequivocally a tree swallow, eh ???!!!!

Dan

[bwenger]

NormaJean,

Tree swallows have started many people toward hosting martins. I was housing bluebirds, then tree swallows, and then started trying to host Purple Martins.

The way I look at it, anyone can have tree swallows, but martins are the prize! I would also suggest closing or lowering all of your martin houses, get the tree swallows nesting 75-100 feet away from your most open area where you want to attract martins, and shoot for the martins. They will need to start nesting in their own box before they will forget about the martin housing.

I have been trying to attract martins with Bluebirds and tree swallows nesting within 40-45 feet of my martin housing, and although I haven't noticed much fighting between the TS and BB's and martins that have been hanging around in prior years, but for some reason they just haven't nested at my place yet.

This year, I am taking the suggestion of several Amish landlords and moving the TS and BB's further away from my housing. This will be my 5th of trying, and am running out of things to try.

Good luck attracting martins this year.

Bill

[KathyF]

Dan,
I agree with you about the lake's edge information from that link. I've read reports on this forum from many people that live on canals & lakes who have martins and they do just fine. I don't see any reason why TRES wouldn't do fine on a lake either. I think it is a good idea to understand all three species' nesting habits too....knowing their nesting habits, I wouldn't dedicate a gourd rack to them, though.

A single 'shepherd's hook' or something to hang a single gourd on would do for them.

To Normajean, Dan's advice is solid - I've used it and it worked ...I've sent it to others and they report that it worked for them. It worked for me so well in fact that my BBs and TRES (after the initial squabbling) actually started guarding their own houses and my martin housing from the ocassional starling & HOSP that dared to stop by here. They were fierce in their defense of their territory (and the martins'). So it is beneficial to follow the instructions, not only to encourage them to nest where they should but for the added benefit of their ferocious protection of their territory.

Anyway - to me, configuring your nesting to accomodate territory is exciting - (to me) - as you are using nature's instincts & optimizing them to help itself.

By the way - to all reading this thread - one interesting aside that I read at the treeswallowproject link was that they mentioned that they are noticing that it appears that bluebirds are 'evolving' to be genetically rougher & tougher to fight off the starlings.

[Guest]

Hey all,

It seems the more I read, the more confused I get and it should be so simple. Put up a gourd or birdhouse and sit back and watch the show. WRONG!! I didn't have swallows two years ago, but Martins flew over our pond nearly every day and I thought it would be easy to get some to stay. They didn't, and like I said, the swallows came. All of our housing is on the water and really spread out since the pond is three acres. The swallows love it. The swallows haven't started building a nest yet and if I wait until they do, it may be to late to move the gourd they like. I don't want to lose them. I am aware of all the problems with having TRES, Swallows, and Martins, but have enough room for all of them. The TRES don't bother the Bluebirds. If this thread is getting to long, anyone can email me privately and or call me. Thanks Norma
PS I don't think many people in Al have swallows.