Hawk Population Trends
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scottfreidhof
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:13 am
- Location: Kentucky/Morehead
A quick search on the internet yielded some information about Cooper's hawk and sharp-shinned hawk population trends, as well as other hawks. Hawk and eagle populations have rebounded in general since around 1972 when the use of the pesticide DDT was banned and since hawk shooting was outlawed by the states. Three surveys are used to estimate trends for hawks, including the Breeding Bird Survey (BBS), the Christmas Bird Count (CBC), and raptor migration counts at various sites around the country. Survey data generally support a positive trend in Cooper's hawk populations over the longterm. The sharp-shinned hawk population trend is up or down depending upon where in the country the survey was completed, but no significant increase is supported nationwide. More detailed information can be gleaned from Raptor Conservation Status Reports available at the Hawk Mountain website (http://hawkmountain.org/index.php?pr=Ra ... fe_History)
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starling shooter
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:43 pm
- Location: Central MO
Being quiet and unconspicuous, accipiters are very difficult to atlas.
The fact that they are preying on PMs colonies everywhere, are nestting in cities and parks and are playing havoc with the pigeon sport tend to show their numbers are on a big upward swing.
One thing to that is not taken into account. In the past, there were 10s of thousands of small game hunters. Rabbits, squirrels, quail, doves, woodcock made a sporting chase and table fare. This has largely ceased. Growing up, there were bird dogs everywhere. I don't know of a single hunter now who has a bird dog in the county I grew up in now. Just a fact but those hunter/food gathers did not like the competition. I've heard tale my grandpa would take the squirrel dog and be gone for hours looking for dinner.
Growing up, every farm had chickens, turkeys, etc. A steel trap errected on a pole in the chicken yard was common. Right or wrong, that is the way it once was. Just like deer and racoons in the city limits, there numbers are unchecked.
The fact that they are preying on PMs colonies everywhere, are nestting in cities and parks and are playing havoc with the pigeon sport tend to show their numbers are on a big upward swing.
One thing to that is not taken into account. In the past, there were 10s of thousands of small game hunters. Rabbits, squirrels, quail, doves, woodcock made a sporting chase and table fare. This has largely ceased. Growing up, there were bird dogs everywhere. I don't know of a single hunter now who has a bird dog in the county I grew up in now. Just a fact but those hunter/food gathers did not like the competition. I've heard tale my grandpa would take the squirrel dog and be gone for hours looking for dinner.
Growing up, every farm had chickens, turkeys, etc. A steel trap errected on a pole in the chicken yard was common. Right or wrong, that is the way it once was. Just like deer and racoons in the city limits, there numbers are unchecked.
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Guest
That’s not quite true, starling shooter. The day when it was legal to kill raptors is gone, but the practice remains. It is, unfortunately, more common than you may believe. There is even an acronym used in the circle of those who take hawks and owls illegally. The acronym is SSSU. It stands for shoot, shovel, shut up.
“The fact that they are preying on Purple Martin colonies everywhere” is misleading. I am not aware of any predation on Purple Martins at the colony that I manage. I would see the signs of predation at my colony, as I witness hawk attacks at my backyard birdfeeders and see the “remains” after a kill. I am sure that there are many Purple Martin colonies that do not experience owl and hawk predation. The Cooper’s hawk is endangered, threatened, or a species of special concern in many parts of the Northeast, Northwest and Midwest. Their numbers are not “on a big upward swing” everywhere. Where birds are concentrated, like birdfeeders and Martin colonies, the chances are greater that there will be raptor attacks. There are more folks with carts full of food at grocery stores than at post offices. It stands to reason that the more prey humans concentrate in a small area, the greater the chance that birds of prey will take advantage of them. If I put out more bird feeders I would probably attract more hawks. If I decide to attempt to create a Purple Martin super colony the chances are that a raptor would find it and use it.
I know many upland game bird hunters and none of them would consider shooting a bird of prey. Hunters may be on a decline and perhaps hunters did have an impact on the numbers of raptors in the past. The large scale habitat destruction of today limits the number of raptors more than hunters and farmers from decades ago did. The fact that the Cooper’s hawk is endangered in Connecticut, Illinois and several other states seems to make this clear. While there may be areas in southern states where the Cooper’s and other hawks have rebounded since the days of indiscriminate shooting, trapping and DDT use, they are a part of the food chain. Purple Martins and hawks have existed together for thousands of years. If there is a significant problem with hawks that can be proven the federal government can and does destroy raptors. The permit is, and should be, very difficult to obtain.
I have only seen one Bald Eagle in my backyard in the past 10 years. Within 50 miles of me a farmer gathers deer carcasses from road kills. He dumps the carcasses on his land and has dozens of Bald Eagles every day of our Michigan winters. Raptors are not stupid. They find food sources and use them. In fact, most birds figure out where food is and take advantage of it. I probably never would have seen a Common Redpoll this winter if I didn’t feed birds. I saw flocks of over 100 birds at my feeders this year. Purple Martin colonies are a pleasure for many people. To many raptors they are just another feeding station. The skies were once darkened by flocks of Passenger Pigeons. They are a testament to what man can do to a species if he is foolish enough.
“The fact that they are preying on Purple Martin colonies everywhere” is misleading. I am not aware of any predation on Purple Martins at the colony that I manage. I would see the signs of predation at my colony, as I witness hawk attacks at my backyard birdfeeders and see the “remains” after a kill. I am sure that there are many Purple Martin colonies that do not experience owl and hawk predation. The Cooper’s hawk is endangered, threatened, or a species of special concern in many parts of the Northeast, Northwest and Midwest. Their numbers are not “on a big upward swing” everywhere. Where birds are concentrated, like birdfeeders and Martin colonies, the chances are greater that there will be raptor attacks. There are more folks with carts full of food at grocery stores than at post offices. It stands to reason that the more prey humans concentrate in a small area, the greater the chance that birds of prey will take advantage of them. If I put out more bird feeders I would probably attract more hawks. If I decide to attempt to create a Purple Martin super colony the chances are that a raptor would find it and use it.
I know many upland game bird hunters and none of them would consider shooting a bird of prey. Hunters may be on a decline and perhaps hunters did have an impact on the numbers of raptors in the past. The large scale habitat destruction of today limits the number of raptors more than hunters and farmers from decades ago did. The fact that the Cooper’s hawk is endangered in Connecticut, Illinois and several other states seems to make this clear. While there may be areas in southern states where the Cooper’s and other hawks have rebounded since the days of indiscriminate shooting, trapping and DDT use, they are a part of the food chain. Purple Martins and hawks have existed together for thousands of years. If there is a significant problem with hawks that can be proven the federal government can and does destroy raptors. The permit is, and should be, very difficult to obtain.
I have only seen one Bald Eagle in my backyard in the past 10 years. Within 50 miles of me a farmer gathers deer carcasses from road kills. He dumps the carcasses on his land and has dozens of Bald Eagles every day of our Michigan winters. Raptors are not stupid. They find food sources and use them. In fact, most birds figure out where food is and take advantage of it. I probably never would have seen a Common Redpoll this winter if I didn’t feed birds. I saw flocks of over 100 birds at my feeders this year. Purple Martin colonies are a pleasure for many people. To many raptors they are just another feeding station. The skies were once darkened by flocks of Passenger Pigeons. They are a testament to what man can do to a species if he is foolish enough.
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Guest
"Purple martins and hawks have existed together for thousands of years"
Mark, that is a very misleading statement...only in the last 40 years have we seen an explosion in the number of martin colonies in the U. S. , beginning with the introduction of the Trio houses in the early 1960's. Prior to that, hawks and martins DID exist together, on a level playing field, with not nearly the concentrated levels of martins that are now seen.
Consequently, we are now seeing an explosion of hawk attacks on purple martin colonies.
Your failure to acknowledge the fact that the dynamic has changed only shows what we on this forum already know..........you are an unapologetic advocate of hawks. This forum is for the growth and welfare of purple martins.............hawks are a detriment to purple martins...........maybe your views would find a more receptive audience on the Hawk Forum.
Gary Berger
Mark, that is a very misleading statement...only in the last 40 years have we seen an explosion in the number of martin colonies in the U. S. , beginning with the introduction of the Trio houses in the early 1960's. Prior to that, hawks and martins DID exist together, on a level playing field, with not nearly the concentrated levels of martins that are now seen.
Consequently, we are now seeing an explosion of hawk attacks on purple martin colonies.
Your failure to acknowledge the fact that the dynamic has changed only shows what we on this forum already know..........you are an unapologetic advocate of hawks. This forum is for the growth and welfare of purple martins.............hawks are a detriment to purple martins...........maybe your views would find a more receptive audience on the Hawk Forum.
Gary Berger
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Guest
So, to be clear, if someone states that hawks are not inherently evil, they should not post on this forum?
I have no doubt that many of the posters in this forum have been witnessing hawk attacks recently, but isn't it also a safe assumption that this forum houses a disproportionate number of large martin colonies? It is of course completely reasonable to be upset by losing a martin or martins to hawk attacks, but the venom towards anyone stating reality, not to mention the hawks, is probably not necessary.
Now, the starlings and sparrows on the other hand...they warrant everyone last bit of scorn we can muster.
I have no doubt that many of the posters in this forum have been witnessing hawk attacks recently, but isn't it also a safe assumption that this forum houses a disproportionate number of large martin colonies? It is of course completely reasonable to be upset by losing a martin or martins to hawk attacks, but the venom towards anyone stating reality, not to mention the hawks, is probably not necessary.
Now, the starlings and sparrows on the other hand...they warrant everyone last bit of scorn we can muster.
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John Miller
- Posts: 4866
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
One thing is that hawks are definitely becoming acclimated to urban areas. Back when I was a kid and LBJ was president, it was rare to see a hawk in a town...or even a crow. Now crows are a nuisance and hawks bump into plate glass windows and delivery vans in downtown St. Louis and end up on the nightly news! And...last year rebabbers here freed a recovered Cooper's Hawk into the park where I manage martin housing 
John M
John M
Last edited by John Miller on Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
I honestly didn't hear any venom. 
I hear differences of opinions. We each have tremendous passions about our Martin family. And hawks. It's only natural to defend the ones you love. But I did not hear any venom. 
I see more hawks in my area than I have ever seen. They are just magnificent creatures and I love to watch them. But I like watching them a few miles down the road and I wish I could tell them to LEAVE MY PM's ALONE. I have had attacks. Nature it sometimes the cruelest thing to witness. 
I hear differences of opinions. We each have tremendous passions about our Martin family. And hawks. It's only natural to defend the ones you love. But I did not hear any venom. I see more hawks in my area than I have ever seen. They are just magnificent creatures and I love to watch them. But I like watching them a few miles down the road and I wish I could tell them to LEAVE MY PM's ALONE. I have had attacks. Nature it sometimes the cruelest thing to witness. -
Guest
gary berger wrote:"Purple martins and hawks have existed together for thousands of years"
Mark, that is a very misleading statement...
That’s not misleading, at all. That is the truth.
only in the last 40 years have we seen an explosion in the number of martin colonies in the U. S. , beginning with the introduction of the Trio houses in the early 1960's. Prior to that, hawks and martins DID exist together, on a level playing field, with not nearly the concentrated levels of martins that are now seen.
Consequently, we are now seeing an explosion of hawk attacks on purple martin colonies.
So, you are placing the blame for hawk attacks on Purple Martins squarely on the shoulders of Purple Martin landlords and Purple Martin housing manufacturers. I had not realized that was the entire problem. Thanks.
What is strange is that I have read accounts by James Audubon on how the sky was filled with Purple Martin migrations in my state of Michigan, thousands of them. Now colonies are few and far between.
You don’t suppose that there was any correlation between the numbers of hawks increasing in the 70s and the discontinuation of DDT use in the 70s, do you?
Your failure to acknowledge the fact that the dynamic has changed only shows what we on this forum already know..........you are an unapologetic advocate of hawks. This forum is for the growth and welfare of purple martins.............hawks are a detriment to purple martins...........maybe your views would find a more receptive audience on the Hawk Forum.
I am a hawk advocate, Gary. I’m also a Purple Martin advocate. You can be both. Humans are a detriment to Martins, as evidenced by the recent Lowe’s incident. Snakes, S&S, heat, cold, rain, mites, blow flies and a number of other things are detriments to Martins, as well. Have you sent hate mail to Mother Nature lately? She is due if you haven’t.
Gary Berger
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Guest
I won't even begin to address all the errors in your thinking......won't waste my time.
But to say you are an advocate of martins AND hawks?? LMAO
Do you know what "advocate" means? It's like saying you are an advocate of martins and starlings. Too funny.
But to say you are an advocate of martins AND hawks?? LMAO
Do you know what "advocate" means? It's like saying you are an advocate of martins and starlings. Too funny.
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Guest
And another "pro" hawk sentiment vs. "anti" hawk sentiment thread argument has started
I guess the annual thread about the correct way to handle S&S control isn't too far behind.
I guess the annual thread about the correct way to handle S&S control isn't too far behind.
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Guest
That’s fine.
Believe it or not, I do know what advocate means. I also stand by my word. I am an advocate of hawks and Purple Martins. I have worked with both of them. I have also dealt with Starlings, Gary. Starlings and hawks are not even in the same family of bird, so your comparison must only be that you believe that I’m not intelligent. Maybe you think that I’m strange. I am an advocate of industry and conservation. I am an advocate of fishing and hunting and preservation. I am an advocate of a lot of things that you might not understand and some things that seem to be opposites or don’t appear to be compatible. I like frogs and snakes. If I just liked frogs I wouldn’t want to see all snakes dead.
The thing that is sad is that you are only an advocate of a single species.
Sorry John.
Believe it or not, I do know what advocate means. I also stand by my word. I am an advocate of hawks and Purple Martins. I have worked with both of them. I have also dealt with Starlings, Gary. Starlings and hawks are not even in the same family of bird, so your comparison must only be that you believe that I’m not intelligent. Maybe you think that I’m strange. I am an advocate of industry and conservation. I am an advocate of fishing and hunting and preservation. I am an advocate of a lot of things that you might not understand and some things that seem to be opposites or don’t appear to be compatible. I like frogs and snakes. If I just liked frogs I wouldn’t want to see all snakes dead.
The thing that is sad is that you are only an advocate of a single species.
Sorry John.
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Guest
Mark,
no apology needed, my comments were not directed at you. I personally don't see what the big deal is. It's nature.
no apology needed, my comments were not directed at you. I personally don't see what the big deal is. It's nature.
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Guest
Hey Guys,
Not trying to be anything in this fray. Just curios, what does LMOA mean?
Still waiting impatiently in Checotah,
Not trying to be anything in this fray. Just curios, what does LMOA mean?
Still waiting impatiently in Checotah,
LMAO means laughing my butt off 
I too love hawks and Martins, but i don't want a hawk anywhere near my Martins, i have already lost a few birds to hawks and witnessed 2 attacks.I have tried to attract Kestrels with no luck for years until i began my colony.Martins are becoming more and more scarce, and its not just nature we play a role in this too. All practical means need to be addressed to resolve the hawk problem, decoys or patrols.
I too love hawks and Martins, but i don't want a hawk anywhere near my Martins, i have already lost a few birds to hawks and witnessed 2 attacks.I have tried to attract Kestrels with no luck for years until i began my colony.Martins are becoming more and more scarce, and its not just nature we play a role in this too. All practical means need to be addressed to resolve the hawk problem, decoys or patrols."We can judge the heart of man by his treatment of animals." - Immanual Kant.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JulioPrado954/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JulioPrado954/posts
We humans ought to able to come up with some device that will disrupt hawk attacks on a Martin colony. Good grief, are we not smarter than a hawk? Look what a great invention the SREH has been to the benefit of Martins! Right now, I am thinking of some wide mesh screen that Martins can fly through, but too narrow for a hawk to breach without slowing up. Anybody have some thoughts on this?
Gary
Gary
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scottfreidhof
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:13 am
- Location: Kentucky/Morehead
The purpose of my original post was to provide information about hawk populations since so many forum members ask questions about hawk numbers, migration, breeding ranges, etc. I wanted some answers to these questions as well. The ensuing conversation has raised some additional interesting questions especially related to predator-prey ecology. Are hawks a detriment to purple martins? I believe the answer is "no." Hawks kill individual martins in the population, but the martin population as a whole does not decline as a result of hawk predation. I don't believe hawks are a primary limiting factor on the martin population. A lack of suitable nesting sites is a primary limiting factor on martins. Competition from non-native cavity nesters is a primary limiting factor on martins. For comparison, I think about the plight of the Kirtland's warbler in northern Michigan. A lack of suitable nesting habitat in the form of young jack pine forests is a limiting factor on this imperiled population. Nest parasitism by brown-headed cowbirds is a limiting factor on this population. Brown-headed cowbirds were not part of the natural selection process of this songbird or other songbirds in the eastern forests. The legal control of brown-headed cowbirds within the warbler's habitat has made a significant difference for the warblers. As far as I know, native predators are not a limiting factor on the warbler's population growth. Similar factors affect martins and Kirtland's warblers, but native predators are probably not as big a limiting factor as we might think.
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Guest
Very interesting post, Scott. It brought the question to my mind--is my backyard the natural habitat of a hawk? Not before the last few years, it wasn't, and I don't even have a colony yet. I remember a decade ago, during a ride in the "country", being thrilled to see a red-tailed hawk, because I had never seen one before. Now I see about 30 every day. I realize these are wintering-over hawks, but there is no doubt that there are many more hawks in Delaware that have moved out of the country, into the cities and towns.