HOSP - How bad are they?

[MJM]

I appear to have 2 HOSP moved into my martin area. Haven't seen any before in the 3 years now I have done this (had tree swallows historically but got them into two adjacent trees in their own houses). I've got a pretty good amount of martins on my 3 houses now, maybe 30ish? They seem to just ignore the HOSP and the HOSP appear to have taken up one of the empty holes on the back.

Since there is no fighting, and no room constraints... is there harm in leaving them? Read some other forum posts and it's not entirely clear why they are not liked?

[brent]

House sparrows, if left alone and allowed to nest, will eventually take over and you will lose your martins, eventually. Trap them and kill them. Sounds harsh I know. It’s necessary for our martins to survive. Brent

[flyin-lowe]

You need to take care of them now. They are not bad right now but once they start nesting they will go around and peck holes in the martins eggs. Especially if you try to get rid of them later in the season. Lets say you pull a nest or shoot/trap the female later in the season, the males can go on a rage and destroy a bunch of nests.

I am fighting them more this year. In the past I have my T 14 up way before the martins arrive and trap a lot of them. This year I didn't get my housing up and then we took a last minute spring break trip and by the time I got back I had half a dozen martins back so I haven't set any of my traps because my housing is almost filled up. I have been shooting them but they are starting to wise up and now as soon as they see me anywhere outside they take off. I did get a male today who flew into a nearby tree and I was able to get a shot at him in the tree.

[Kegger]

I had probably 100 or so 4 years ago when I started.
I am lousy shooting them, but trapped about 60 my 1st year and gassed them. Shot about 5 starlings and
Trapped a couple in an empty THG with a nest and an egg, also had 1 breach a Conley 2 and he couldn’t get out. I probably still have about 10 sparrows left. But they do hold a grudge. A cavity I trapped them in last year has SY martins w/4 eggs which got poked and thrown onto my boat last week.

[C.C.Martins]

blue bird.jpeg (97.63 KiB) Viewed 1371 times

Please, please shoot them. Dont get me started.....ok I'm started. What you face, if they are allowed a foot hold, is the male sparrow deciding to go peck eggs, or drag chicks out just to do it. He will decide they are competitors, they defend their immediate area fiercely and kill them. If he can get a martin in its cavity, good luck for the martin. They will pack your house and martins cannot get in. I watched a video of a male HOSP taking over a tree swallow nest, he actually tried to drag that swallow into the box by its beak, if it were sucessful it would have killed it.
Shooting or nest box and ground traps are your choices, if I remember you have a heath on a fixed pole so cavity traps are not an option.
Buy a blains or better yet troyer ground repeating trap.
A good pellet rifle, not bb's.
A PMCA nest box trap.
They cannot co exist. Never, ever. It will be a death knell for your colony.
This season iv been on top of them. Yet Sunday shot one off a troyer porch...in our front yard, he wanted that cavity, thank God we had no eggs yet. Shot 12 more off the blains ground trap, rest were nest box traps.
one last, here's a picture of a blue bird after a male HOSP got hold of it, it was still alive when they found it. Ok, Ill stop...

[randyM]

When I initially put up bird houses for martins, tree swallows, and bluebirds I naively thought house sparrows would peacefully coexist with these other species.....boy was I wrong. The first year I let a half dozen pairs of sparrows successfully nest (each pair fledged two sets of young in the same year). I thought I had plenty of extra nest cavities for all so I had no concerns. The next year I had more sparrows and more tree swallows, thus more competition for the more highly sought after nest cavities. I had a pair of tree swallows begin to build a nest in a bluebird box visible from my front window. I noticed a male house sparrow harassing the tree swallows but was chased away by both swallows. An hour later I noticed the male sparrow go into the house and I saw the male tree swallow frantically flying and vocalizing in front of the bird house. I went out and opened the bird box and the male sparrow flew out, but I discovered the female tree swallow nearly unconscious with blood dripping from her skull. I immediately took her and placed her in a shoebox with a lid and brought her into my house. I continued to watch the nest box until I saw the male sparrow return and go into the bird house. I grabbed my 12 gauge shotgun and started walking towards the nest box. When the sparrow flew out I connected...instantaneous death with no suffering. I learned my lesson the hard way not to let sparrows or starlings nest anywhere on my rural property. I typically shoot a dozen or two sparrows and starlings combined each year. A 12 gauge shotgun might seem like overkill, but it's 100% effective and no suffering occurs to the ultimate targets. I shot 2 starlings today and most of the 30 martins currently at my site hardly flinched when I shot, the ones that took flight were back roosting on the housing within 30 seconds. As for the female tree swallow, she recovered from her wounds in a few hours and I released her. She immediately joined her mate and later that day they continued nest building activities and eventually fledged 5 of 6 eggs she laid. That is the first and last sparrow/starling that will cause any such issues on my watch!! House sparrows and starlings are relentless, you need to be equally as relentless in eliminating these problem species.

Randy

[MJM]

Wow, ok you have convinced me.

Good news is, my father in law has dead-aim with bird shot in his 410- and the HOSP seems to fly down to my fence and the ground right by the gourds. He enjoys a little sport, so they will be gone in the next couple days.

[millerjr88]

I too have shot them with a 12 gauge early in the season after first making sure there are not martins close by. This can be difficult for me after all the martins are here as there are usually a few martins to close to the HOSP to utilize the 12 gauge. Last year I invested in a Savage .17 HMR to deal with HOSPs. It is very accurate and quiet enough it doesn't seem to scare off martins. I have shot several HOSPs off martin house perch with a martin perched on the opposite side of house where the martin simply stayed on the perch and watched the HOSP fall to the ground. I do shoot out of my second floor window when using the .17 so I am shooting in ground with a safe backstop.

[C.C.Martins]

Wow, ok you have convinced me.

Good news is, my father in law has dead-aim with bird shot in his 410- and the HOSP seems to fly down to my fence and the ground right by the gourds. He enjoys a little sport, so they will be gone in the next couple days.

Haha!! Good! Had me worried a bit my friend.

Its a never ending battle, so prepare sir. Id look at some trapping options. I absolutely love the PMCA nest box trap but a 10.00 dollar van ert in a slapped together wooden box works as well.

Hope he: killsemall

[Thomas Maddox]

Agree with all of the above! Out of curiosity, do the female HOSPs take revenge like the males do?

[CTMartins]

Trap and release far away. Or trap and cull :(

[C.C.Martins]

Agree with all of the above! Out of curiosity, do the female HOSPs take revenge like the males do?

Thomas, no revenge trips like the males but a female will go in and destroy eggs while the male keeps watch. Birds of a feather?

[Thomabear]

MJM, as everyone stated, the only good sparrow is a dead sparrow. I would take them out ASAP before they attract others. Tell your father in law good luck with that necessary target practice .

[Martintown33]

Ditto to all of the above! Trap or shoot them ,or you and your martins will regret it. I know it’s hard at first, but HOSPS will take your generosity, and stab you in the back, by killing baby martins or destroying their eggs.
Good luck..
Rob

[zoefluf]

Any info on habits of the male sparrows? I caught the first female he brought in a trap after it laid eggs. I was afraid to tear out the nest in case he would be angry. He brought another female and I shot the second one he brought with a BB gun. Can't believe I actually hit it! But, he keeps bringing more females. He is very smart. Doesn't go in the nest, just sends in the females. I wonder if he goes in the nest in the evenings. I don't like to leave the nest trap on the gourd over night because I'm afraid I'll trap a PM. Though I haven't seen any in the sparrow gourd because he guards it.

[Martintown33]

Hi.. glad you got 2 of the female HOSPS! As to your question, the male HOSP is more aggressive than the female. If you get him, your problem will be solved because he won’t keep calling in more females. If you’re worried about catching a Martin in your trap, you can cover the gourd entrance hole, with a thin piece of plastic, paneling, cardboard.. just about anything thin will work.. cut a round hole 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches in diameter in the material you’re using.. attach over the gourd entrance hole, so martins can’t get in through the smaller hole, but the HOSP still can.. once the female starts nest building that male will eventually go in and you will get him..
good luck
Rob

[Matt F.]

Just to add to how destructive house sparrows are, even when it appears they're coexisting with the Martins, below is some empirical evidence gathered by San Antonio Martin advocate Mike Scully.
Mike used to monitor numerous Martin houses that were erected in public areas, and had been hosting Martins (and house sparrows) for decades.
He referred to them as the "street colonies".
Here is a direct quote from Mike, where he discusses his findings in reference to "house sparrow revenge syndrome" (this phenomenon was first documented many years back by experienced landlord Steve Kroenke).

“In 2008 I pulled all sparrow nests every week from March through May (more than 200 completed sparrow nests), the sparrows never quit and "sparrow rage" was in full flower. The egg to fledge success rate of martins attempting to nest in those houses was only 15%. Last year I did one pre-season nest pull out. Fourteen pairs of martins nested in those same houses, the ten pairs I was able to observe to fledging having an egg to fledge ratio of 50%.”

[MJM]

The Scoreboard Stands at:

House Sparrows : 0
Ornery Father in Law : 6

[Martintown33]

I like that score! Good job. Your martins and you will be much happier..
Good luck,
Rob

[C.C.Martins]

The Scoreboard Stands at:

House Sparrows : 0
Ornery Father in Law : 6

Good score! Yes!!!