In my reading/questions and looking at different sites(on the web) I think the way to go is a Gourd rack.
I'll be stting down face to face with one of the experts on PM's wednesday afternoon if hell doesn't freeze or the creek doesn't rise. I am very fortunate to live within just a few miles of Emil P. and have an invite to see his operation. I'm quite anxious to say the least.
I'm sure beyond a doubt that Emil can answer all my questions wednesday but I need some fuel for fire today so heres a few to ponder over.
This so called excluder device or crescent entry I'm reading about,,,,will it also deter the sparrow? I have not seen one starling to my knowledge in the last 10 years but we have lots of sparrows around. I have been feeding the wild birds for years . Now my wife would not have anypart of me catching/trapping and then killing them but I certainly could trap and relocate easily enough.
I have also heard mention of a 2" long tunnel entry used with a Gourd but haven't seen a pic with one in use. How does that all come together?When a Gourd is turned on its side then the neck offers a tunnel of sorts but upright Gourds seem to be the more often used.
What would be the standard spacing of Gourds on a rack both horizontal and vertical for more than one level.
I don't have enough re-estate to have a very big colony but would love to have a small one of just one gourd rack with maybe 14 to 16 Gourds and could add a second setup if successful.
I sure would like to see you pics of Gourd setups
My one pair is still with me along with the 3 SY's. I wish I knew the status of whats going on. The female spends alot of time in her space and the ASY male is always close by. The 3 SY's seem to run around the country side a lot rather than hang around the homesite. Isn't that just like a kid?
ROTFLMAO
dick
More Gourd questions and a little chat time.
Dick,
Emil is a very good souecse of information, I have never chatted with him per se but have picked up a ton of infirmation just reading his postings and answers to questions. Not to take anything away from him but there is also much to read about at http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckabare/ read my post about North Al.
John
Emil is a very good souecse of information, I have never chatted with him per se but have picked up a ton of infirmation just reading his postings and answers to questions. Not to take anything away from him but there is also much to read about at http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckabare/ read my post about North Al.
John
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Guest
Thanks for that link John ,I have touched on that one before but am now ear marking them for future ref.
dick
dick
Dick,
Unfortunately, because sparrows are so much smaller than martins, no opening prevents them for getting into your martin housing. Depending on your location and size of your resident sparrow populations, they can be quite destructive to a colony so trapping and/or shooting is a must. Relocation of trapped birds is a touchy subject but whether you agree or disagree, they often return to the same location so your problem isn't solved. As you have no doubt read, sparrows not only fill compartments with their bulky nests and prevent martins from getting in, they also destroy eggs and nestlings and are downright aggressive once they become established. SREHs control starlings. Only perseverance and determination control house sparrows.
Good luck,
Patrick
Unfortunately, because sparrows are so much smaller than martins, no opening prevents them for getting into your martin housing. Depending on your location and size of your resident sparrow populations, they can be quite destructive to a colony so trapping and/or shooting is a must. Relocation of trapped birds is a touchy subject but whether you agree or disagree, they often return to the same location so your problem isn't solved. As you have no doubt read, sparrows not only fill compartments with their bulky nests and prevent martins from getting in, they also destroy eggs and nestlings and are downright aggressive once they become established. SREHs control starlings. Only perseverance and determination control house sparrows.
Good luck,
Patrick
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Guest
Patrick would the sparrows come back if I hauled them off 20 miles,i'll bet they wouldn't if I,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,get the picture?????
Are sparrows also a problem with gourds or just fixed housing?
dick
Are sparrows also a problem with gourds or just fixed housing?
dick
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Mary Dawnsong
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:17 pm
- Location: Michigan, Livingston County
Hi Dick,
This article written by a Bluebirder has helped convince some spouses that House Sparrow (HOSP) control is necessary:
http://members.tripod.com/~herper/nothi ... ouble.html
Can't remember the source, but I remember reading about relocation experiments with HOSP. They quickly returned when released 30 miles away.
Some who feel they cannot kill HOSP will trap them and trim the tail or wing feathers so they cannot fly high enough to get to martin housing. I assume they don't survive long, either. I haven't done it myself, so don't know the right technique.
The inexpensive bird seed contains millet which HOSP love. Try using safflower seed and black oil sunflower seed (in hulls) in conventional feeders and niger thistle in finch tubes. These seeds are very high quality and more expensive - best purchased from a feed store in large bags. I have never had problems with HOSP eating those seeds.
House Sparrows prefer house compartments with porches if given a choice, but they will nest in ANY cavity. They don't even need a cavity.
This article written by a Bluebirder has helped convince some spouses that House Sparrow (HOSP) control is necessary:
http://members.tripod.com/~herper/nothi ... ouble.html
Can't remember the source, but I remember reading about relocation experiments with HOSP. They quickly returned when released 30 miles away.
Some who feel they cannot kill HOSP will trap them and trim the tail or wing feathers so they cannot fly high enough to get to martin housing. I assume they don't survive long, either. I haven't done it myself, so don't know the right technique.
The inexpensive bird seed contains millet which HOSP love. Try using safflower seed and black oil sunflower seed (in hulls) in conventional feeders and niger thistle in finch tubes. These seeds are very high quality and more expensive - best purchased from a feed store in large bags. I have never had problems with HOSP eating those seeds.
House Sparrows prefer house compartments with porches if given a choice, but they will nest in ANY cavity. They don't even need a cavity.
Click here to see my colony
"In Michigan every martin matters"
"In Michigan every martin matters"
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Guest
Emil is the man when it comes to gourds and martins, so I won't presume to tell you all about them, but here are a few thoughts:
In another post, you asked "Why gourds" as opposed to other types of housing. I have natural gourds for a lot of reasons. Esthetically, I like natural gourds over plastic and aluminum; just like the natural materials, plus I think they are better in both heat and cold. Natural gourds are light, easy to raise and lower with just a rope and pulley, don't need a winch. Personally, I think they look better. I like the variation in sizes and shapes; not a lot of plastic clone gourds, but each one unique in some way. And, as others have said, that's the way the Indians did it!
As far as vertical versus horizontal, I think Emil is doing a trial of horizontal gourds, and I know Steve Kroenke has done a lot of research in that area. Do a search here for Steve's posts and you should find several. The idea is a good one: Put the entry hole at or near the end of the neck, which creates a natural tunnel, minimizing the risk of owl predation, and the position also makes better use of the space in the body of the gourd. Only thing I can't see is how you hang the suckers so they are level.
Starling-Resistant Entry Holes (so-called "crescents" or other shapes) work for starlings because of their size and their deeper keel (breastbone) but NOTHING works for House Sparrows. HOSP can get in through a 1.5" round entry hole for bluebirds. They can't get into a wren box with a 1 inch hole, but then, neither can bluebirds, tree swallows, or purple martins. If you trap and release HOSP, don't point them toward Ohio. I don't need any more. NIMBY, as they say ("Not In My Back Yard.")
I will try to attach a picture of my set-up from 2004, my first year. After I shot this picture, I replaced the green gourd with a white one for the tree swallows, since they didn't want one painted green with leaf stencils all over it! I gave it to the wrens; they don't care, they will nest in anything.
I have obtained the add-on for the Natureline rack, to make it 2 levels, and 8 more gourds, but have not added them yet since my colony suffered a set-back in 2005 and I am essentially starting over. Also, my cousin is building me a wooden Chuck Abare-style house, which I hope to have up by the end of this season. I hope to attract the attention of some HY birds, to give myself a jump of 2007. At the rate he's going, though, I may have a long wait!
Edit: More on HOSP: They WILL come back if you drive them 20 miles away. (And with gas prices, who can afford a 40 mile round trip every day? 'Cuz that is how often you will have to do it.) And where will you dump them? Not in a nature preserve, I hope, or anywhere where someone else is trying to host bluebirds or purple martins. Take them to a McDonald's; they all love that! And, they WILL nest in gourds. They prefer fixed housing, but take it from me, they WILL get into a gourd, despite what you may read about them not liking the swaying motion.
In another post, you asked "Why gourds" as opposed to other types of housing. I have natural gourds for a lot of reasons. Esthetically, I like natural gourds over plastic and aluminum; just like the natural materials, plus I think they are better in both heat and cold. Natural gourds are light, easy to raise and lower with just a rope and pulley, don't need a winch. Personally, I think they look better. I like the variation in sizes and shapes; not a lot of plastic clone gourds, but each one unique in some way. And, as others have said, that's the way the Indians did it!
As far as vertical versus horizontal, I think Emil is doing a trial of horizontal gourds, and I know Steve Kroenke has done a lot of research in that area. Do a search here for Steve's posts and you should find several. The idea is a good one: Put the entry hole at or near the end of the neck, which creates a natural tunnel, minimizing the risk of owl predation, and the position also makes better use of the space in the body of the gourd. Only thing I can't see is how you hang the suckers so they are level.
Starling-Resistant Entry Holes (so-called "crescents" or other shapes) work for starlings because of their size and their deeper keel (breastbone) but NOTHING works for House Sparrows. HOSP can get in through a 1.5" round entry hole for bluebirds. They can't get into a wren box with a 1 inch hole, but then, neither can bluebirds, tree swallows, or purple martins. If you trap and release HOSP, don't point them toward Ohio. I don't need any more. NIMBY, as they say ("Not In My Back Yard.")
I will try to attach a picture of my set-up from 2004, my first year. After I shot this picture, I replaced the green gourd with a white one for the tree swallows, since they didn't want one painted green with leaf stencils all over it! I gave it to the wrens; they don't care, they will nest in anything.
I have obtained the add-on for the Natureline rack, to make it 2 levels, and 8 more gourds, but have not added them yet since my colony suffered a set-back in 2005 and I am essentially starting over. Also, my cousin is building me a wooden Chuck Abare-style house, which I hope to have up by the end of this season. I hope to attract the attention of some HY birds, to give myself a jump of 2007. At the rate he's going, though, I may have a long wait!
Edit: More on HOSP: They WILL come back if you drive them 20 miles away. (And with gas prices, who can afford a 40 mile round trip every day? 'Cuz that is how often you will have to do it.) And where will you dump them? Not in a nature preserve, I hope, or anywhere where someone else is trying to host bluebirds or purple martins. Take them to a McDonald's; they all love that! And, they WILL nest in gourds. They prefer fixed housing, but take it from me, they WILL get into a gourd, despite what you may read about them not liking the swaying motion.
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Guest
Kathi,the hang level problem can easily be solved by leveling and holding level on a bench by mechanical props,then a liguid could be poured in that sets hard ,epoxy comes to mind. This will of course gas for a time, probably not over a month . You could then find the hanging point of equilibrium with a suction cup on a string,once you have found this point and marked it, a permanent hanger could be affixed and it would hold level . The hanger would have to be such that it could only swing in the left right axix or plane how ever you want to describe it .A swing in the length wise direction could and would probably dump eggs.
How about a gourd that is like a longneck squash, where the neck is off to one side,do they grow one like that? If so it could probably swing in any direction and not be a problem if the neck hump were positioned to the top.
How about a gourd that is like a longneck squash, where the neck is off to one side,do they grow one like that? If so it could probably swing in any direction and not be a problem if the neck hump were positioned to the top.
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Mary Dawnsong
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:17 pm
- Location: Michigan, Livingston County
So, Dick, what's your wife going to think about you hybridizing martin gourds in the backyard? (HOSP make great compost!)
Click here to see my colony
"In Michigan every martin matters"
"In Michigan every martin matters"
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Guest
If I'm sucessful at trapping them ,I'll dispose of them humanely.
I do'nt think she will like to see a lets say a $500 investment go awry because of a sparrow, that would also cut into her casino time LOL
dick
I do'nt think she will like to see a lets say a $500 investment go awry because of a sparrow, that would also cut into her casino time LOL
dick
Dick,
The house sparrows in my yard have never read the PMCA forum and readily take to gourds...often over vacancies in an aluminum house. They are extremely tenacious and I hate them with a "purple" passion. If you trap and miss or shoot and miss, you'll create an unstoppable monster. They can become extremely trap smart and if they see the backdoor crack even an inch they'll take off. But I'll not be beat by these black-bibbed aliens. I'm going to be trapping all year by hook or by crook. I'm not above any method to get rid of a sparrow.
Patrick
The house sparrows in my yard have never read the PMCA forum and readily take to gourds...often over vacancies in an aluminum house. They are extremely tenacious and I hate them with a "purple" passion. If you trap and miss or shoot and miss, you'll create an unstoppable monster. They can become extremely trap smart and if they see the backdoor crack even an inch they'll take off. But I'll not be beat by these black-bibbed aliens. I'm going to be trapping all year by hook or by crook. I'm not above any method to get rid of a sparrow.
Patrick
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Patrick, have you tried a dip net with about an 8ft handle. put it over the gourd, and the sparrow may get caught in it. I never tried it but some people say it works good if you can catch them inside a gourd.
Emil,
That is next on my list. I've got a supergourd trap on the way and want to try that first. I sit and watch behavior a lot. The male especially often enters the gourd and almost immediately sticks his head back out for a look around. He'll be hard to approach but I think it can be done. Hopefully this supergourd trap will get his *#@! (edited translation of that would be "tail feathers") and I'll be waiting for the next pair. I'm now approaching 30 house sparrows trapped this season in nestbox traps. Amazing...Once the spring progresses toward summer I'll go for a bait trap. Thanks for the tip. I'll let you know if I use it and how it goes.
Patrick
That is next on my list. I've got a supergourd trap on the way and want to try that first. I sit and watch behavior a lot. The male especially often enters the gourd and almost immediately sticks his head back out for a look around. He'll be hard to approach but I think it can be done. Hopefully this supergourd trap will get his *#@! (edited translation of that would be "tail feathers") and I'll be waiting for the next pair. I'm now approaching 30 house sparrows trapped this season in nestbox traps. Amazing...Once the spring progresses toward summer I'll go for a bait trap. Thanks for the tip. I'll let you know if I use it and how it goes.
Patrick