New Styrofoam Fiberglass/Epoxy Coated Martin House

[Joe Zorn]

Patrick,

I finished my styrofoam housing and have had it up for about three weeks. Still early here for the SY's, so no customers yet. No Starlings or sparrows either. No even in the NB Trap.

We did have a LOT of wind from all those tornados that Arkansas and surrounding states had last week. Sustained about 40mph, and gusts to 50-55, easily.

The pole I'm using is the homemade one that everyone thought was not going to be good enough about six weeks ago. But since I am using 6-1/2lb styrofoam on it, I used it anyway. I got the bottom of the house at 23 ft, because of lots of close buildings and reasonably close trees.

That pole stood like a champion. Never once threatening to reach anywhere near a point of no return.

As for hail damage to the styrofoam, I am going to bet that hail will tear these things up pretty badly. Use the thincker styrofoam will certainly help. I'm thinking that any kind of hardned exterior, other than fiberglass risen is going to be like an eggshell if hit full force by a sizable piece of hail.

Hail here in South Louisiana comes about as often as snow. We forget it exists most years. So I have not even thought about that.

Joe

[~Patrick~]

Maybe a foam house with an aluminum roof would be helpful in a hail prone area...unless the hail was driven in sideways from the wind. We have a good bit of hail here, some of it quite large. I've seen hail here that would destroy even the best of houses. I guess I can always give it a try. I won't really know until one goes through a hailstorm.

Patrick

[Guss P O'Brien]

Preliminary plans for the foam house I plan to try building. I think I'll try to build the 1 room gourd-like chalet this year if I can to test entrances. Next year try a 1-level apartment style with attic that can be expanded to 3+ levels in the future if successful.

For access, I think I'll try the BN method of keeping the levels separate.

I'm wondering about drainage from upper levels going into lower levels.

Please give suggestions if you have them.

[Guest]

Guss,

I am still working on my two designs of houses and plan to have them completed and ready to go a week from this weekend. I will be happy to furnish pictures and measurements when they are through.

If you are going to split each floor for easy access you might want to try cutting the mating outside panels at an angle so that water will not get in as easy when there is sideways wind driven rain.

Also, I am constructing individual nest boxes that fit into the house that will keep the nests off of the compartment floor to help keep rain out and make servicing nests easier. The nest boxes themselves have a water-excluding hump (like a speed bump) epoxied to the floor several inches inside the entrance to provide additional water prevention.

I could not tell from your floor plans if you are going to provide porches and/or recessed entrances. I am constructing my to include both. One design has a deep entrance much like the open hallway you often see in apartment buildings. The actual entrance into the nesting area is recessed about six inches in and at a ninety degree angle through a SREH. I am hoping that the recessed entrances will provide protection from predators and a higher comfort level for the martins.

Of course, all of this design stuff is only pertinent if we can get a colony established. As I have indicated elsewhere if after all of this I still can't attract martins I am going to start providing housing for something easier to attract - like ivory billed woodpeckers !

Jeff Nelson

[Guest]

Well, it's finally done! I finished my first epoxy resin coated foam martin house and got it up Sunday night. Following are pictures of the results. I am not totally satisfied with the appearance, but I have had to hurry these last few weeks to be ready for martins - they have been spotted in Michigan the last several days.

I have learned a lot during this project and would certainly do some things different in the future. I want to thank Bernie and all of you that have contributed ideas here. The information has been very helpful. I will try to provide the main details of this construction below.

The apartment style house is constructed using 1/2 and 1 inch thick insulating foam board. The foam board is coated with epoxy resin and reinforced with glass matt (4 oz) in areas that I felt structurally required it. The entire house is painted with Rustoleum exterior paint to provide UV resistance.

The nesting compartments are individual and separate of the main house structure. They are secured in place with Velcro to allow easy removal for any required maintenance. The interiors are painted with hunter green paint to provide a dark interior and anti-slip sand has been added to prevent babies from developing splayed legs from a slippery surface. The compartments measure approximately 11.75 x 8 inches internally and have external porches built on them. I have cemented water barriers a couple inches inside the entrances to keep water from getting to the nest area. Special SREH plates are designed to function as blocking plates when installed upside-down to manage access to the compartments. The plates are mounted in plastic guides to let them slip and stay snugly in place.

The top edges of the exterior walls are bevelled at 30 degrees sloping out to keep rain from entering between levels. I have installed rubber weather stripping to seal between the top and bottoms of the exterior walls.

The house splits between floors for easy access to the nesting compartments. The entire assembly is mounted on a 4 x 4 pole and raises with a pulley. At the top I have mounted aluminum rods for perches.

The house provides double foam insulation on all sides except the front of the nesting boxes. The tops of the boxes are about an inch and a half from the ceiling to allow good ventilation.

I did not have time to make a detailed list of dimensions but I will do that later if anyone requests it. I hope that this is the year that we are able to establish a martin colony. I have tried to use as much information as possible from this forum in designing this house.

Jeff Nelson

[Guss P O'Brien]

Awesome! You really did an excellent job. It is a fine looking house. I like your ideas like water barrier, velcro, weather stripping, and especially the entrance plates. I have some questions when you have a chance. No rush.

How will the structure drain?

How does is ventilate? I have a hard time understanding the gap you mentioned.

How will you do nest checks? Will you lift levels apart or pull out the nest trays?

How are the levels held together?

I'm rushing to get my honey-do list completed so that I can start construction. I like the tunnel entrances the fellow from TN added to Naturelines which I may try to incorporate.

Again, it looks great.

[Bernie Nikolai]

Looks tremendous Jeff! Since you are trying to start a new colony, I only have two more suggestions. Cut some straw to 4"-6" lengths, and add 1/2" to the compartments at the back. I also added a chewing gum sized wad of mud crammed into the angle just under the entrance to try and trick the martins into thinking this was a great place to nest. Did it work? Well, I went from 3 pairs to 16 pairs last year, and it made me feel better anyways

All the best Jeff. My thinking is if styrofoam housing like yours won't attract martins up north, nothing will, and there just aren't enough martins around in your area (yet). And lastly if you aren't already, use the dawnsong, which really helps attract curious martins to your site. Once they see your house, the rest is up to them. Please keep us posted as to how your housing works for you this year.

[Guest]

Bernie,

I have added pine straw and based on your recommendation I will also add some mud. I have dawnsong playing from before dawn through mid-day when the system switches over to day-time chatter. I am also seriously considering offering 10,000 bonus frequent flier points to any martin that comes and stays with us this summer. We're trying everything we can think of....

Regarding tunnel entrances, I have a second foam house under construction that features tunnel style entrances leading back to SREH's that enter the nest area at a 90 degree angle about six inches inside the tunnel. I don't know if I will be able to get this house done in time to raise this spring since I have so much else to do. I can e-mail you pictures of this design - it is complete enough that you can get the main idea regarding the layout.

Guss,

My main goal was to keep rain from entering the nest boxes in the first place. Because the joints between floors are angled and sealed with weather stripping, plus the fact that the nest box wall has about a half inch of space from the outside wall of the house, I don't expect rain to get in there. At the front of the nest box the entrance is recessed back from the outer wall and there is an internal water barrier on the box floor about 1 1/2 inches back from the SREH that should keep water out there. At this point I have not drilled drain holes in the nest area at the back of the box and I want to watch it and see if any water does somehow manage to reach there. Water that gets inside the outer shell of the house (not in the nest boxes) can simply drain out the front.

The inner walls of the housing shell do not extend all of the way to the ceiling (bottom of the next floor). This provides about an inch and a half of area for air to circulate. Further, the nesting box walls do not extend to the top of their respective cavities so there is open area there as well. The area at the back of the nest box cavities is also open around the plastic sleeve that runs on 4 x 4 pole. Collectively, I think that there will be plenty of ventilation considering that the roof is two layers of 1 inch foam and has the air pocket between the sloped top and the flat bottom all acting as insulation against radiated heat from the sun.

The house splits into three sections for inspections and service. The roof section, and two levels of nest box compartments. The three sections are held together by the rope that raises the house since it travels through all three sections and anchors to the base of the bottom section. Thus, when the rope is pulled to raise the house, it loops through the pulley at the top of the pole and pulls the house up from the bottom - holding everything together. To further secure the sections I attached a long coil spring to the bottom of the roof section that feeds down through holes in each of the sections near the pole. The spring has a lanyard on it to keep it threaded through all sections when the house is split open for service. When I am ready to raise the house I pull the spring by the attached lanyard down through the bottom section until the end comes through and I attach it to a hook in the base of the bottom section to hold all the sections together.

To service the house easily I have drilled small holes up the pole from near the bottom up about five feet. When I split the house I can raise the upper sections and place a peg in the holes to hold them up while I work on the sections below. Of course all of this easy access for service doesn't mean diddley squat unless martins move in . We'll see.....

I hope this answers your questions. I will be happy to provide any information that I can. One point I will offer up right now. If I were to start this over from scratch I would definitely use a 3/4 inch plywood base for the floors of the house sections. I was not able to find perfectly straight sheets of 1 inch foam anywhere. Further, the bases tended to warp as the project progressed, making good straight construction difficult. I am sure that the extra rigidity of the plywood would have made good square construction easier. The wood would add weight, but I would trade the weight to have a good straight platform.

Jeff Nelson

[Guest]

I've been watching this thread for a while. Some very, very cool stuff in here, and I definitely plan on pursuing this as a housing material for my own colony someday.

There's a question, though, that was posed to me at a dinner party by a PM landlord wannabe. We were discussing housing options, and I had mentioned this thread, and his first question (one I didn't have an answer to) was:

"What about formaldehyde outgassing from the foam?"

Is this something we should be concerned about?

[Guest]

The houses look great and it may be something for me to keep busy on the weekends. Just curious.....how much have you spent on supplies?

[Bernie Nikolai]

There's a question, though, that was posed to me at a dinner party by a PM landlord wannabe. We were discussing housing options, and I had mentioned this thread, and his first question (one I didn't have an answer to) was:

"What about formaldehyde outgassing from the foam?"

Is this something we should be concerned about?

I can't see how this would be a concern AggieMEEN. The exact same insulation is used in residential house construction up here in Canada, and many basements have it installed, and for many years. I haven't heard of Canadians dropping dead enmasse from formaldehyde outgassing It is a good question and one to have a concern about, but I understand the gasses, etc. are only a concern in the immediate manufacturing process in the factory. The styrofoam becomes inert once it sets.

[Guest]

Okay. I was just curious. I'll do some checking and see whether outgassing is a real issue or just a boogieman topic.

[Carlton]

I am very impressed. Looks GREAT and appears to work well. It SEEMS that is would be too lightweight to withstand thunderstorms and such but apparently it works just fine.

GOOD JOB and THANKS for sharing. I especially like the idea of it being cooler in the summer and warmer in a late spring.

[Guest]

Aggie,

I agree with Bernie that there shouldn't be much concern about the gassing effect. The foam is already pretty stable stuff when you buy it and the foam is completely encapsulated in a minimum of three coats of epoxy resin on all surfaces as well as being coated with UV resistant Rustoleum paint. The epoxy seals the foam and provides structural strength and the paint resists UV damage from the sun. I did notice the paint odor this morning when I added pinestraw and mud to the nest boxes. This is due to the fact that I only finished painting it Sunday morning and raised it Sunday night. I think the Rustoleum odor should be gone by the weekend.

I think that the overall structural strength of the house is good in relation to the weight. I did not cover all surfaces with the fiberglass matting in the resin coats - just the areas that I felt would require the added strength. I will learn this year if there are areas that will want further strength in future houses (here I am being very optimistic that I will get martins) . I think the biggest problem with not covering all areas of the foam with the reinforcing matt is that those areas tend to be more susceptible to puncture damage. This is not to say that it is delicate, but careless and rough handling could put dents in some areas. In actual use I think it will stand up well to wind and rain since the roof is reinforced with matt and extra coats of resin making it very strony. Golfball size hail might do some serious damage, but then hail of that size would cause me a lot more and bigger issues .

Nesto,

I will have to total my costs for you. I spent more than I originally figured I would - but it seems all projects work out like that. I also am building a second house of a different design using the same materials so I will need to factor that as well. I will try get a tally together this weekend and post it for you.

Jeff Nelson

[Guest]

Guss,

Regarding the rope and spring that pass through the housing sections for raising the house and keeping the sections together - re-enforce!. By that I mean that you need to glue and epoxy-coat thin strips of wood where you will want to attach rope anchors or pass through the foam. If you do not do this the rope or spring will easily saw the soft foam core. I found that cutting up the wood stir sticks you get at the paint store work very well for this. They are thin and an ideal width, they are good seasoned wood, and the price easily fits my budget - they're free! Once the wood strips are set with epoxy, simply drill passage holes for the rope or drill and screw your rope anchors into the wood. Bernie also provided good information about this earlier in this thread.

I also cut sections of PVC pipe and epoxied them into the roof section for rope passage through the roof. This adds even more strength and guides the rope as well.

I will try get some pictures of servicing the house on the pole this weekend so that you can see better how the house comes apart and goes together on the pole.

Jeff Nelson

[Guss P O'Brien]

Jeff,

I was planning on attaching my rope to the core/chimney- whatever it ends up being- and then foam only has to be strong enough to hold itself to the core. This approach works well in the PVC octominiums that I use. Your and BN's suggestions on reinforcing are great.

I figured on somehow latching the layers together and have pretty much given up on having access doors on each compartment. I got the idea from your pictures and descriptions that the nest trays that were velcroed in would slide out the front for nest checks, but I guess not. Still it gives me one last hope for a trio/T-14 type front access instead of separating entire floors. I worry that opening an entire floor may result in early fledges. I stop opening compartments once the chicks reach 20-something days old. In this case, it would mean not checking an entire floor once any of the nestlings reach that age on that floor.

Thanks again for sharing all the great info.

[Guest]

About the outgassing of formaldehyde.

Bernie and Jeff, you were right in that there is no danger of this kind of outgassing from the insulation you're using.

After doing some Googling, I learned that there are a couple sources of insulation that do outgas formaldehyde. One is cellulose-based insulation, which is made of recycled newspaper. The newsprint in this may still contain some formaldehyde which can outgas. The other (mentioned only in one source, so it may or may not be reliable) is fiberglass insulation.

Neither of these are used in this kind of housing.

I'm guessing that the rigid board insulation that is used is of a polystyrene base? If so, then you've got the added satisfaction of not releasing CFCs into the atmosphere. Just in case, you know, some hippies start whining about your use of foam killing mother Earth, or something like that, you can tell them about the material properties before loosing the dogs on them.

Source for some material properties for insulation.

[Guest]

Aggie,

You are correct about the foam composition. It is the pink or blue colored insulating sheets sold in 4 x 8 ft sections. Take careful note of posts earlier in this thread about the use of epoxy resins - standard fiberglass resin will melt the foam.

Guss,

My nesting boxes do not slide directly out without separating the floors about an inch. This is due to the amount of overhang that I created at the bottom edge of the outside walls (relevant to the floor). One could modify the dimensions slightly and they would easily slide out. If you were to do this you might want to modify the way the nest boxes are secured. I placed velcro at both the back side and bottom of the next boxes so that they do not separate easily with a straight outward pull. Perhaps I am being overly-cautious here but I wanted good protection from predators being able to pull the boxes out.

I like the idea of securing the pulley rope to the bottom section so that the whole weight of the house is supported directly by it. This also makes servicing separate sections easier since I can lift them up and then place a peg in a hole in the 4 x 4 to hold it out of the way. I am hoping that the depth of the nest boxes are deep enough to avoid premature fledglings but I will need to watch that carefully. Of course that assumes that martins bless me with their presence this year !

Jeff Nelson

[Guss P O'Brien]

Aggie ME,

I did some googling, but didn't take the time to read thoroughly. There appears to be a foam that uses a urea-formaldehyde solution as the main ingredient. I didn't take the time to figure out how to know if your foam was made from UFC (urea-formaldehyde concentrate).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X ... ng&spell=1

I worked for 12 years in a formaldehyde industry. So, I do know a lot about it, but not about the foam application. Formaldehyde is a very common ingredient in construction products- pretty much anything containing wood or paper bound together. I think the issue with outgassing is more important when there is a tight enclosure without much ventilation- like an energy efficient new house. Even a poorly ventilated martin house should be ventilated well enough to allow the volatile formaldehyde gas to escape and not reach dangerous levels.

There were all sorts of birds- the entire bird food chain- living within and around the plant I worked at that had relatively very high levels of formaldehyde vapors. There were no massive bird kills that anyone every noticed. I think a bird's life is probably too short to have any effects of low level formaldehyde exposure show up. Formaldehyde is not a chemical that has cumulative effects like DDT or mercury- where it would build up in the food chain. (This entire paragraph is my personal opinion based only on my very limited formaldehyde knowledge.)

[Sparky]

Really nice. How do you do nest checks? This would work well down here in south Louisiana. I am going to give this a shot. I noticed last year my martins were Really hot even with all the ventilation holes. Great Job Bernie, Ken.

Yes, that's my question. How do you get access to the compartments for nest checks.

Great work Bernie!

I'm testing out the ceramic insulating powder you add to paint this year. It's one package added per gallon. I applied mine by spraying with a gun. I added 1/4 of the package to 1 Qt. of Rustoleum White, (thinned with paint thinner and a touch of Japan additive for faster drying) paint and did several coats on my 2 units (8 compartments each)