I started out with round holes but over a couple of years converted to all SREH. We had an ASY male injured due to a starling attack. Made me just sick. Plus we did not have the time to stand out 24/7 and watch for them. It always seem if we went inside for 30 minutes to had to leave they would always come right before the had to go somewhere and then I worried all the time I was gone what was happening to my martins.
I believe all housing should come with SREH and then if you want round holes switch to round entrances. The reason I say this is because probably the majority of people around here (our communities) just buy a cute bird house at Lowes, Walmart, or where ever to put in their yard. I am going out on a limb but I also believe that it the way it is most places. They do not know about the devastation starlings can cause to martins and will not or do not intend to get out and spend hours a day and every day shooting starlings. Many people (folks NOT on this forum or other martin forums) probably do not even know the difference between martins and starlings anyway. They have to be taught. I also believe since we are all members of PMCA, we should be all about conserving and preserving martins and teaching those outside this forum how to do that which involves SREH, trapping, and shooting starlings and sparrows. RC Moser was correct when he said it is not about us it is about conserving purple martins. I would say the majority of people here on the forum knows how and has the tools to change a round hole to SREH but the majority NOT on the forums that buy gourds, martin houses of whatever kind do NOT either have the tools or know how to change from round to SREH. Plus I think teaching should be done when someone calls to order a house,gourds or whatever about starling and sparrows so they will know what they are up against once they put the housing up in their yard.
I agree it is everyone's choice to purchase SREH or round but we (us on the martin forums) are not the majority of people with housing up in the great USA. Companies should put SREH on all products, charge a little more, and then if round holes are prefered then change them. There are lots of people in this great land that doesn't have computers or do have computers but don't know about PMCA or other forums to go and learn about protecting martins. I support SREH 100%. We don't have very many starlings either but have a few more than I thought because we have caught 4 in our trap this year. I would just about bet that if it weren't for the trap and 100% SREH we would have had martin or martins hurt or dead due to these 4 rats.
Why are round entrance holes still in use?
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birdy girl
- Posts: 1179
- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:09 am
- Location: Mississippi/Dumas
Last edited by birdy girl on Sat May 22, 2010 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Scott D.- La
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:35 am
- Location: Louisiana
Rc,
I honestly can't give a accurate answer and all I can do is assume. I would imagine most people have Starling problems out their ears especially in urban areas and like I said, have absolutely no problem using SREH. My birds use Clingers as well as a round hole but some would say the Clinger is not good enough so where do you give in here. I think this should be taken up to the manufacturers instead of beating each other up over it and made a similar posting 2 years ago. People complain of round holes on a forum, of a organization, that indeed does sell round holes and other websites as well that sell them. Put the blame where it should be if you want to fault round holes. I did not like the tone of the original posting and took offence to it. Brad later stated his intention was not as I took them and will do more editing as it's hard over a computer to get your point of view across and not offend at the same time.
I honestly can't give a accurate answer and all I can do is assume. I would imagine most people have Starling problems out their ears especially in urban areas and like I said, have absolutely no problem using SREH. My birds use Clingers as well as a round hole but some would say the Clinger is not good enough so where do you give in here. I think this should be taken up to the manufacturers instead of beating each other up over it and made a similar posting 2 years ago. People complain of round holes on a forum, of a organization, that indeed does sell round holes and other websites as well that sell them. Put the blame where it should be if you want to fault round holes. I did not like the tone of the original posting and took offence to it. Brad later stated his intention was not as I took them and will do more editing as it's hard over a computer to get your point of view across and not offend at the same time.
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Tim Stover
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:04 pm
- Location: Tennesse/Madisonville
hi everyone just had to jump in wing entrapment that i have read about on the forum out weighs starlings killing martins 10 to 1 we need to shoot these starlings and quit bandading martins homes i had a bad starling problem i have 120 natural gourds this is my second year as a landlord 2 pair last year have 22 pair as of today half round holes half oblong i agree with steve on round holes i made a starling cemetary so far between 4 and 5 hundred lay there sure they keep comin back not had one in over a week 
if you shoot enough of them they quit coming back just bought a thousand more rounds i built a duck blind in the back yard to shoot starlings through the winter when they are in big flocks :lol
if you shoot enough of them they quit coming back just bought a thousand more rounds i built a duck blind in the back yard to shoot starlings through the winter when they are in big flocks :lolNOT about you and what your doing, majority don't shoot, can't shoot, trap, or even watch PMs, and don't have a clue what actually goes on around their colony. Takes about 5 mins for starling to over take or kill PM. So what your saying your on guard ever minute of the day. I agree you can nearly reduce the threat by your tatics, but you will never be able to leave your colony unattended for hours or days without the threat of starling attack. Why should your birds suffer cause of your conplaciency? Again what would be best for PMs? Srehs out ways any of the nay sayers of round holes and the bottom line is srehs protect PMs
I also have to as why PM make mud dams on round holes? I never seen that at my site? is it do to the fact that the 2" round hole is too big and even the PM sence that and try to make it smaller? or they are just think they are cliff swallows and have to play in the mud?
I also have to as why PM make mud dams on round holes? I never seen that at my site? is it do to the fact that the 2" round hole is too big and even the PM sence that and try to make it smaller? or they are just think they are cliff swallows and have to play in the mud?
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Tim Stover
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:04 pm
- Location: Tennesse/Madisonville
they call it nature the way i saw it in my dads gourds back in the sixties they put mud in a shreh entrance they could not get back out :???:i believe the mud forms a step and barrier
Birdy girl, I didn't think about it in the same way you did, but I agree with what you said completely. Most of the people on this forum manage their colonies. I'd guess that maybe 2% of landlords are familiar with this forum or any other. Most as you said, buy a cute bird house, stick it up and raise whatever comes along. I wonder how many fewer Starlings there would be if all Martin compartments came equipped with SREH? If for no other reason than to prevent Starlings from nesting at unmanaged sites.
I was at a farm that I am responsible for at work the other day. The lady that owns the farm was there and we were talking. She had a gourd rack with 8 little brown plastic gourds on them. I never saw a Martin, but did see several pairs of Starlings going in and out the gourds. My comment was, "I see you have Martin gourds. If not for the Starlings that are nesting in them, you would likely get Martins." She snapped her head around and looked at her gourd rack. She didn't say anything, but I think she thought she had Martins.
I was at a farm that I am responsible for at work the other day. The lady that owns the farm was there and we were talking. She had a gourd rack with 8 little brown plastic gourds on them. I never saw a Martin, but did see several pairs of Starlings going in and out the gourds. My comment was, "I see you have Martin gourds. If not for the Starlings that are nesting in them, you would likely get Martins." She snapped her head around and looked at her gourd rack. She didn't say anything, but I think she thought she had Martins.
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Martin man RI
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:04 pm
- Location: MA/RI area
!00% SREH Have record numbers of martins People with small round units
keep them..... just means more Martins for me! Units that are small and
round holes should no longer be sold technology of 1970's
keep them..... just means more Martins for me! Units that are small and
round holes should no longer be sold technology of 1970's
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~Ray~Gingerich
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:24 pm
- Location: Delaware/Dover
I use mostly round holes on my houses mainly because the majority of housing in my area have round entrance holes and that's what they seem to prefer. I have a few SREH entries available and some of my birds are now taking a few of those especially the Conley2 entrance. My plans are to gradually phase in an SREH entrance the birds will easily adapt to which will probably be the Conley 2
~Ray~ Gingerich
1999 1pair, 2006 2 pair, 2008 2 pair,
2009 23 pair, 2010 39 pair, 2011 67 pair,
2012 115 pair, 2013 160 pair,
2014 152 pair, 2015 174 pair, 2016 178 pair
2017 187 pair, 2018 200 pair, 2019 171pair
2020 233 pair
1999 1pair, 2006 2 pair, 2008 2 pair,
2009 23 pair, 2010 39 pair, 2011 67 pair,
2012 115 pair, 2013 160 pair,
2014 152 pair, 2015 174 pair, 2016 178 pair
2017 187 pair, 2018 200 pair, 2019 171pair
2020 233 pair
I can't believe there aren't abundance of starlings in Dover Del. You will be a believer when you have starling attack and find dead female in her compartment trying to protect her eggs or babies. Again I can't stress enough to get rid of the round holes even it's the slightest risk for starlings. I say this so you don't have to go through the same anxiety Me and many others have gone through. Even if I had 200 pairs I wouldn't risk my birds to that. Heck if I had that many I probably wouldn't notice the lost, but I would feel it when I seen it.
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Joe Zorn
Brad.
I disagree with much of what you say here about the SREH vs Round Holes.
But, unlike many, I am not a purist to the hobby. I use what works in different situations. I have both. I have had problems with both.
What works for Pennsylvania is often not valid in South Louisiana. What works in Louisiana, or the landlords reason believing as he does, is invalid for Texas, Alabama, or Missouri landlords.
For sure, I won't lose a minute of sleeping worrying about what others think of my site or my methods. If a feather or two gets ruffled because I have spoken my peace, then that birdy is going to have to fly for a while like that till his feathers straighten again. I can't help him if he flys away in a rage. Probably wouldn't feel the need to try, even if I could.
In that light, I don't agree with your evaluation of round holes, but I'll defend your right to feel and write as you do.
I disagree with much of what you say here about the SREH vs Round Holes.
But, unlike many, I am not a purist to the hobby. I use what works in different situations. I have both. I have had problems with both.
What works for Pennsylvania is often not valid in South Louisiana. What works in Louisiana, or the landlords reason believing as he does, is invalid for Texas, Alabama, or Missouri landlords.
For sure, I won't lose a minute of sleeping worrying about what others think of my site or my methods. If a feather or two gets ruffled because I have spoken my peace, then that birdy is going to have to fly for a while like that till his feathers straighten again. I can't help him if he flys away in a rage. Probably wouldn't feel the need to try, even if I could.
In that light, I don't agree with your evaluation of round holes, but I'll defend your right to feel and write as you do.
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Indiana_Tom
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 10:01 am
- Location: Paragon, Indiana
I didn't read all of this thread word for word but here is my 2 cents.
My preference are the crescent entrances. I have lots of starling around but none get in.
I would like to see the martin houses / gourds sold in local stores sent out with a SREH because many people buy one at their local store, don't take the time to learn anything about the problems martins have or how to manage them, stick it up in their front yard and just provide massive housing for HOSPs and Starlings. If the manufactures sent them out with SREH to start with the Starlings in the US would loos 75% of their free housing.
If a person that learns Purple Martin management and decides to go to round entrances, that is his / her educated choice.
The vast majority of people that purchase a martin house or gourd from their Rural King store or Wal-Mart aren't Martin landlords, they are bird house planters.
My neighbor has a Trio house with round holes up. He has a ASY pair, a House Sparrow pair and a pair of starlings trying to nest right now. He wants martins but any bird will do.
That is my 2 cents and I don't think I stepped on anyones toes.
Tom
My preference are the crescent entrances. I have lots of starling around but none get in.
I would like to see the martin houses / gourds sold in local stores sent out with a SREH because many people buy one at their local store, don't take the time to learn anything about the problems martins have or how to manage them, stick it up in their front yard and just provide massive housing for HOSPs and Starlings. If the manufactures sent them out with SREH to start with the Starlings in the US would loos 75% of their free housing.
If a person that learns Purple Martin management and decides to go to round entrances, that is his / her educated choice.
The vast majority of people that purchase a martin house or gourd from their Rural King store or Wal-Mart aren't Martin landlords, they are bird house planters.
My neighbor has a Trio house with round holes up. He has a ASY pair, a House Sparrow pair and a pair of starlings trying to nest right now. He wants martins but any bird will do.
That is my 2 cents and I don't think I stepped on anyones toes.
Tom
2009, 1 pair of SYs w/4 eggs - wait, no 4 babies and all 4 fledged. What a great experience.
2010, 2 ASY pair and 2 SY pair 18eggs / 14 fledged.
2011, 12 pair with 49 eggs, 43 fledged.
2012, 20 pair with 113 eggs as of 1 June
2013, 22 pair with 112 eggs as of 9 June
2014, 23 pair with 113 eggs
2010, 2 ASY pair and 2 SY pair 18eggs / 14 fledged.
2011, 12 pair with 49 eggs, 43 fledged.
2012, 20 pair with 113 eggs as of 1 June
2013, 22 pair with 112 eggs as of 9 June
2014, 23 pair with 113 eggs
The trend seems to be mostly one way. Many of us once used round holes and have now changed to sreh. Those who have tried sreh for a few years and decided to change back to all round holes are as scarce as martins teeth 
After trying it both ways I will never put up anything with round holes again for martins.
I suppose if a person is happy with all round holes or even a few round holes I would say do what you wish in your own back yard.....smile. But many, many of us have changed to all sreh and will never go back to round holes again. I don't know if there is a message of any kind in that or not but take it for what it's worth. A few years back when I would post about the need for sreh I would get flamed pretty good but that was before sreh became much more accepted by many. I decided just not to say anything else about it. I have broken my policy here in this thread. If you are reading this and are new to martins....Just think it through really well and do whatever seems best to you would be my advice..... And now I think I will go back to my policy of just not saying anything else about it.
After trying it both ways I will never put up anything with round holes again for martins.I suppose if a person is happy with all round holes or even a few round holes I would say do what you wish in your own back yard.....smile. But many, many of us have changed to all sreh and will never go back to round holes again. I don't know if there is a message of any kind in that or not but take it for what it's worth. A few years back when I would post about the need for sreh I would get flamed pretty good but that was before sreh became much more accepted by many. I decided just not to say anything else about it. I have broken my policy here in this thread. If you are reading this and are new to martins....Just think it through really well and do whatever seems best to you would be my advice..... And now I think I will go back to my policy of just not saying anything else about it.
T. Seber
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Scott D.- La
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:35 am
- Location: Louisiana
Out of curiosity, I would like to know from the people with Starlings issues. Do Starlings remain a threat throughout the whole nesting process or does the problem lessen as the season progresses? I ask this for the few Starlings I see, is always January to very early March. It makes me think Starlings breed very early in my area and have never seen a Starling when my Martins are in the nesting process at my site which gets going full swing anytime late March into April and May depending on the weather of course. What is the cutoff period for nesting Starlings from my area to let's say Canada? It may be hard to form a census over such a broad area depending on replies to this question. I normally like to have my housing up and open in early January to lure them in along with the very few Hosp we have here. I only got to eliminate 3 sparrows this year but normally get 6 per season.
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Robert Richerson
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:08 am
- Location: Campbellsville, KY
Scott, I have huge amounts of starlings as Kentucky seems to be a winter roost for them. They never leave our area. Starlings are relentless in late February through early March. About the time martins start to return in mid-March starlings are still a huge problem but the numbers that are trying to find nest sites at my colony seem to start dropping. Once I have a good number of martins they seem to drive the starlings to my nest trap I have mounted on an outside shed, sort of like the starlings are herded to the cavity of least resistance. I am still catching a starling almost daily here in May.
I have been taking my time responding to this thread as I am on both sides of the fence. And with producing my starling credentials, I will say this. In the 15-16 years I have been a landlord, I have lost one female martin to starlings. It was a morning I had to be away from home for several hours and I could not monitor the colony.
Up to last year when I first tried the Conley II, I was convinced I was going to do away with crescent shaped SREH's and go 100% round hole. Even with being in a starling infested area, if a landlord is diligent, and I am sure I may be more involved then some, starlings can be stopped, trapped and handled with just a little effort. I actually enjoyed the hunt, something I almost never have now since going 100% Conley II.
I was considering going 100% round hole Supergourds as I think they are simply a classic, well designed gourd that you can trap in very easily. When I attached porches to Supergourds with crescent entries (I would not offer crescents without porches), trapping was impossible. So the problems with starlings that I would lose was compounded by the problem I then had with HOSP's as I could not trap them. Plus some martins were very reluctant to use crescents.
Once I found the Conley II and saw the ease of use by martins, even SY's, and that they are very easy to trap in, I have gone almost 100% Conley II and probably by next year will be. The reasons I was attracted to the Conley II were the tunnels that I hope will deter owls as I will not use owl guards, and again, the ease of trapping sparrows. I have had one entrapment episode that I have seen and it was quickly handled with both martins released without harm.
So basically, if I woke up tommorrow and someone had switched out all my gourds with round hole Supergourds, it would not be the end of the world for me. But with the Conley II, I am a round hole guy that has switched because of failing health and probably needs to lessen the workload of having to deal with starlings.
For colonies like Scott's and Steve's who really don't have starling issues, I really don't see a reason for going SREH. We are starting to lose freedoms in our country at an alarming rate and I don't think SREH's should be forced on anyone. It sounds like "big brother" knowing what is best for all of us.
Edited for grammar
I have been taking my time responding to this thread as I am on both sides of the fence. And with producing my starling credentials, I will say this. In the 15-16 years I have been a landlord, I have lost one female martin to starlings. It was a morning I had to be away from home for several hours and I could not monitor the colony.
Up to last year when I first tried the Conley II, I was convinced I was going to do away with crescent shaped SREH's and go 100% round hole. Even with being in a starling infested area, if a landlord is diligent, and I am sure I may be more involved then some, starlings can be stopped, trapped and handled with just a little effort. I actually enjoyed the hunt, something I almost never have now since going 100% Conley II.
I was considering going 100% round hole Supergourds as I think they are simply a classic, well designed gourd that you can trap in very easily. When I attached porches to Supergourds with crescent entries (I would not offer crescents without porches), trapping was impossible. So the problems with starlings that I would lose was compounded by the problem I then had with HOSP's as I could not trap them. Plus some martins were very reluctant to use crescents.
Once I found the Conley II and saw the ease of use by martins, even SY's, and that they are very easy to trap in, I have gone almost 100% Conley II and probably by next year will be. The reasons I was attracted to the Conley II were the tunnels that I hope will deter owls as I will not use owl guards, and again, the ease of trapping sparrows. I have had one entrapment episode that I have seen and it was quickly handled with both martins released without harm.
So basically, if I woke up tommorrow and someone had switched out all my gourds with round hole Supergourds, it would not be the end of the world for me. But with the Conley II, I am a round hole guy that has switched because of failing health and probably needs to lessen the workload of having to deal with starlings.
For colonies like Scott's and Steve's who really don't have starling issues, I really don't see a reason for going SREH. We are starting to lose freedoms in our country at an alarming rate and I don't think SREH's should be forced on anyone. It sounds like "big brother" knowing what is best for all of us.
Edited for grammar
Last edited by Robert Richerson on Sun May 23, 2010 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Scott D.- La
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:35 am
- Location: Louisiana
Thanks Robert,
That is the best, most intelligent reply I have seen on this thread and you really got into my mind on why I had a problem with the initial posting although, I overreacted, I suppose. I am glad the Conley's are working so well for you and know the entrapment issues can be eliminated if it ever gets to be a problem at your site. Your site has really come far this season with all the hard work, money, and time you invested into it and will provide years of enjoyment for you and your family.
That is the best, most intelligent reply I have seen on this thread and you really got into my mind on why I had a problem with the initial posting although, I overreacted, I suppose. I am glad the Conley's are working so well for you and know the entrapment issues can be eliminated if it ever gets to be a problem at your site. Your site has really come far this season with all the hard work, money, and time you invested into it and will provide years of enjoyment for you and your family.
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Joe Zorn
'Morning Scott,
Starlings are with me the entire season. I have caught the starlings in their brown coats several times in my trap in October through January. Last year, I even caught a pair of brown starlings at he same time in November. So that tells me that a pair may stick it out throughgout the year together.
In the past four days, I thought that I'd eliminated a problem I had last week. I couldn't figure out why eggs kept disappearing from established nests. Not just a couple, but full nests of 5 or 6. One of each, and then two babies missing on the day they were supposed to hatch (don't know if they hatched or not). 13 in all.
I found a nest with four starling eggs after period of 4 days since nest check time. I usually check every 2 days, but one thing or another...etc,... Ah Ha! It's starlings! I'd not had any previous problem with starlings in this house in several years. Small rooms, round holes. The starlings just didn't take any interest in them.
I finally took five days off from work in a row. I took the screen off the kitchen window facing that wooden house. Made a pot of coffee. And watched. I shot two starlings landing on the house. I know one was the mother of the eggs, as I saw her leave the nest just before I got her. Later in the day, I got it's mate, as he was peeping in the cavity looking for her.
Okay, I sez to myself! Got them!
The nest day, infact each day...today is the fifth day...I repeated the process. Yesterday I watched an SY male enter a nest with an ASY male's eggs. I watch as the SY left the nest with an egg. It flew out of my window view, so I can't say where the egg was dropped. In about an hour the SY was back. I chased it off, but I have a feeling that tonight's nest check is going to show that that nest is missing a more than just one egg from the five that were there Friday night.
This wooden house once had 6 x 12 rooms and crescents with tunnels. The house is VERY near a street. 15ft max. I got NO martins in three years. But it's a good looking house, and I left it up for landscaping.
As an experiment, I made the rooms 6" again, and took made the new rooms round hole. That year (last year) I got 4 of the round hole rooms with fledged babies. None of the crescent entrances with tunnels wre used again.
This year, I opened the tunnesl to round holes. Of the 12 round holes, 5 are in use. The starling laid her eggs in this type of room. 6" with a tunnel. The six egg nest was in one of these newly opened rooms with tunnel. The 5 missing was from one of the older ones, as were the two others.
And guess what! The SY male stole the egg from a room with a tunnel.
So what am I to think in conclusion?
-starlings don't mess with 6" rooms, unless they have tunnels.
-if given a choice, my martins will take the round houle over a crescent room of the same size. I think this is because they have to build a ramp to the entrance for easy exit..there no left in a room for a porch or the martin made ramp of sticks and mud, and the nest too.
-starlings get the blame for a lot of things that they are not always responsible for. I would have sworn it was a starling stealing the eggs. But I was bewildered that they never tried using the nest afterward.
Both nests with eggs stolen (6 then 5) renested. Both have 5 eggs now, and have been unmolested since. I think these thefts were the work of SY males that cleared the present eggs from the nest, then convinced the female to mat with them, as both nests now have SY males. I don't know what was there before.
Not that I have martins using the tunneled round hole entrances, I will reinstall clinger entrances on those 12 next year.
I've read every single post to this thread. Lots of good reasoning here. Lots of pure BS too. I don't blame anyone who uses only SREH's. It's their right and follows their beliefs in what's best for their birds. That's what counts. But I also won't pay any attention to bullying by the PM purist who think that way. It does not always work for me.
I have 65 other cavites with nothing but crescents or clingers. If they didn't work where they were installed, then they'd be round holes too.
As for putting only SREH's on all newly manufactured PM houses, so be it. It will not affect me. I have 10 commercially made gourds with clingers. The rest is home made housing. Those 10 were either given to me, or bought at a steal price. I'm not all that proud of them though. They do not do any better than natural gourds for me.
With one exception. That BO11 is far and beyond a better gourd than any of the others. Roomy and wonderfully ventilation. Any others I may buy will be that type.
Wow, didn't intend this one to be so long. Oh well, I vented, and needed that.
Starlings are with me the entire season. I have caught the starlings in their brown coats several times in my trap in October through January. Last year, I even caught a pair of brown starlings at he same time in November. So that tells me that a pair may stick it out throughgout the year together.
In the past four days, I thought that I'd eliminated a problem I had last week. I couldn't figure out why eggs kept disappearing from established nests. Not just a couple, but full nests of 5 or 6. One of each, and then two babies missing on the day they were supposed to hatch (don't know if they hatched or not). 13 in all.
I found a nest with four starling eggs after period of 4 days since nest check time. I usually check every 2 days, but one thing or another...etc,... Ah Ha! It's starlings! I'd not had any previous problem with starlings in this house in several years. Small rooms, round holes. The starlings just didn't take any interest in them.
I finally took five days off from work in a row. I took the screen off the kitchen window facing that wooden house. Made a pot of coffee. And watched. I shot two starlings landing on the house. I know one was the mother of the eggs, as I saw her leave the nest just before I got her. Later in the day, I got it's mate, as he was peeping in the cavity looking for her.
Okay, I sez to myself! Got them!
The nest day, infact each day...today is the fifth day...I repeated the process. Yesterday I watched an SY male enter a nest with an ASY male's eggs. I watch as the SY left the nest with an egg. It flew out of my window view, so I can't say where the egg was dropped. In about an hour the SY was back. I chased it off, but I have a feeling that tonight's nest check is going to show that that nest is missing a more than just one egg from the five that were there Friday night.
This wooden house once had 6 x 12 rooms and crescents with tunnels. The house is VERY near a street. 15ft max. I got NO martins in three years. But it's a good looking house, and I left it up for landscaping.
As an experiment, I made the rooms 6" again, and took made the new rooms round hole. That year (last year) I got 4 of the round hole rooms with fledged babies. None of the crescent entrances with tunnels wre used again.
This year, I opened the tunnesl to round holes. Of the 12 round holes, 5 are in use. The starling laid her eggs in this type of room. 6" with a tunnel. The six egg nest was in one of these newly opened rooms with tunnel. The 5 missing was from one of the older ones, as were the two others.
And guess what! The SY male stole the egg from a room with a tunnel.
So what am I to think in conclusion?
-starlings don't mess with 6" rooms, unless they have tunnels.
-if given a choice, my martins will take the round houle over a crescent room of the same size. I think this is because they have to build a ramp to the entrance for easy exit..there no left in a room for a porch or the martin made ramp of sticks and mud, and the nest too.
-starlings get the blame for a lot of things that they are not always responsible for. I would have sworn it was a starling stealing the eggs. But I was bewildered that they never tried using the nest afterward.
Both nests with eggs stolen (6 then 5) renested. Both have 5 eggs now, and have been unmolested since. I think these thefts were the work of SY males that cleared the present eggs from the nest, then convinced the female to mat with them, as both nests now have SY males. I don't know what was there before.
Not that I have martins using the tunneled round hole entrances, I will reinstall clinger entrances on those 12 next year.
I've read every single post to this thread. Lots of good reasoning here. Lots of pure BS too. I don't blame anyone who uses only SREH's. It's their right and follows their beliefs in what's best for their birds. That's what counts. But I also won't pay any attention to bullying by the PM purist who think that way. It does not always work for me.
I have 65 other cavites with nothing but crescents or clingers. If they didn't work where they were installed, then they'd be round holes too.
As for putting only SREH's on all newly manufactured PM houses, so be it. It will not affect me. I have 10 commercially made gourds with clingers. The rest is home made housing. Those 10 were either given to me, or bought at a steal price. I'm not all that proud of them though. They do not do any better than natural gourds for me.
With one exception. That BO11 is far and beyond a better gourd than any of the others. Roomy and wonderfully ventilation. Any others I may buy will be that type.
Wow, didn't intend this one to be so long. Oh well, I vented, and needed that.
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Robert Richerson
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:08 am
- Location: Campbellsville, KY
Single SY males are my colony's worse enemy.
Gentlemen...
Let us not forget that we PMCA members, all of us together, provide just a minuscule fraction of the housing being used by martins all across the South.
(up north, where martins are much less common, responsible landlords may be more significant)
If the San Antonio area is any example, probably 95% of the southern martin population is breeding in old-style 6x6 round-hole cavities.
Do they take losses? Absolutely, but we forget that ALL wild songbirds sustain considerable nest failures and mortality. With purple martins we landlords act like this is a catastrophe for the species every time this happens. It ain't necessarily so.
If the martin is still a common bird where you live (as it still is for most of us across the South), this is because the species is maintaining its numbers even though it is nesting in unmanaged, 6x6, round-hole housing.
I suspect the martin population is so much higher down south in a large measure because the martins simply have more time to try again after a loss of eggs and young.
The window for starting a successful nest is more than two months long down here; late March to early June, probably twice what it is up north.
We use all SREH's at our school colony now, because we have starlings. If we did not use SREH's I would guess instead of 36-40 pairs of martins we might have 12. But we'd still have martins.
We have counted more than 200 martin housing sites (the great majority neglected and round-hole) within just four miles of our school. About one in every hundred properties. Assuming a 60% martin occupancy rate and maybe 2.5 pairs per "colony" (backed by our data) that comes to around 300 breeding pairs of martins.
Including our own that comes to 338 pairs of martins.
We go back to round hole? ...about 312 pairs of martins left in this four mile radius, most people would never notice.
SREH's do have a downside, ALL of us have seen wing entrapment.
With respect to the SREH/hawk issue, the question isn't so much martins ENTERING the nest to avoid a hawk, but the moment or two they lose trying to EXIT the nest when the general alarm is sounded.
As an aside, one of the biggest benefits of SREH's might be slowing down the depredations of SY males, making it harder for them to come in, and harder for them to leave while carrying an egg or nestling.
Just my $0.02
Mike Scully
Let us not forget that we PMCA members, all of us together, provide just a minuscule fraction of the housing being used by martins all across the South.
(up north, where martins are much less common, responsible landlords may be more significant)
If the San Antonio area is any example, probably 95% of the southern martin population is breeding in old-style 6x6 round-hole cavities.
Do they take losses? Absolutely, but we forget that ALL wild songbirds sustain considerable nest failures and mortality. With purple martins we landlords act like this is a catastrophe for the species every time this happens. It ain't necessarily so.
If the martin is still a common bird where you live (as it still is for most of us across the South), this is because the species is maintaining its numbers even though it is nesting in unmanaged, 6x6, round-hole housing.
I suspect the martin population is so much higher down south in a large measure because the martins simply have more time to try again after a loss of eggs and young.
The window for starting a successful nest is more than two months long down here; late March to early June, probably twice what it is up north.
We use all SREH's at our school colony now, because we have starlings. If we did not use SREH's I would guess instead of 36-40 pairs of martins we might have 12. But we'd still have martins.
We have counted more than 200 martin housing sites (the great majority neglected and round-hole) within just four miles of our school. About one in every hundred properties. Assuming a 60% martin occupancy rate and maybe 2.5 pairs per "colony" (backed by our data) that comes to around 300 breeding pairs of martins.
Including our own that comes to 338 pairs of martins.
We go back to round hole? ...about 312 pairs of martins left in this four mile radius, most people would never notice.
SREH's do have a downside, ALL of us have seen wing entrapment.
With respect to the SREH/hawk issue, the question isn't so much martins ENTERING the nest to avoid a hawk, but the moment or two they lose trying to EXIT the nest when the general alarm is sounded.
As an aside, one of the biggest benefits of SREH's might be slowing down the depredations of SY males, making it harder for them to come in, and harder for them to leave while carrying an egg or nestling.
Just my $0.02
Mike Scully
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Scott D.- La
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:35 am
- Location: Louisiana
Joe,
Thanks for giving the going on's of your colony and the issues you have to overcome to be successful at your location. This year, thus far, I have lost 17 babies and 6 eggs to SY males and like Robert, Sy males cause lots of problems every year. I will explore options for lessening their negative effect's for I am tired of the losses to them on a yearly basis as they do more damage than Hawks, Wing Entrapment, predators ect all combined together.
I always appreciate everyone's viewpoint and opinions as long as they are presented in a positive manner. I do not like to justify anything I do in this volunteer hobby and like Mike alway's reminds us, the majority of the population comes from unmanaged sites and we are a very small sample of landlords across the USA. I would assume anyone who frequents these forum's, does indeed follow the reccommended guidelines on dealing with Starlings and Sparrows and the long list of many other problems that can encountered all across the country. To do otherwise, would indeed be unwise although, certainly a individuals right.
Thanks for giving the going on's of your colony and the issues you have to overcome to be successful at your location. This year, thus far, I have lost 17 babies and 6 eggs to SY males and like Robert, Sy males cause lots of problems every year. I will explore options for lessening their negative effect's for I am tired of the losses to them on a yearly basis as they do more damage than Hawks, Wing Entrapment, predators ect all combined together.
I always appreciate everyone's viewpoint and opinions as long as they are presented in a positive manner. I do not like to justify anything I do in this volunteer hobby and like Mike alway's reminds us, the majority of the population comes from unmanaged sites and we are a very small sample of landlords across the USA. I would assume anyone who frequents these forum's, does indeed follow the reccommended guidelines on dealing with Starlings and Sparrows and the long list of many other problems that can encountered all across the country. To do otherwise, would indeed be unwise although, certainly a individuals right.
Last edited by Scott D.- La on Mon May 24, 2010 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.