Tree Swallows are not yet nesting anywhere on my property but they are perching on the martin gourd rack and allowing martins on it at the same time!! Since martins are living in the gourds I can't close it all the way. Some gourds on the opposite side are closed and the TS were not trying to nest in any gourd on the rack.
BUT, this moring I saw the TS in a gourd. They are trying to take over a gourd while the martins are in residence. I took some pictures to document this activity.
Another very interesting observation is that this TS pair will also allow another TS to perch on the rack at the same time.
This type of TS behavior has never happened here at my place since I have been trying to attract the martins. Each year is different and this year is no exception!
Joyce
Unusual TS Behavior!
-
Mary Dawnsong
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:17 pm
- Location: Michigan, Livingston County
Hi Joyce,
Once you get a strong martin colony -which you now have- the martins are dominant over TRES and they tolerate TRES.
I have so many TRES nesting on my property now, that there is a housing shortage for them. For the last couple of years a TRES pair has claimed a gourd on a martin rack very early in the season. The martins living in the rack utterly ignored them. Both years I simply erected a Bluebird hole gourd on a shepherd's hook at the base of the martin gourd rack and the TRES moved down there immediately. That TRES pair perches on the martin gourd racks all the time, but they don't allow other TRES near them.
Realize that the martin/tree swallow dynamics at my site are completely different than those you have experienced over the years. I had a strong martin colony for 10 years before I first (intentionally) attracted nesting TRES. So martins have always been dominant here. The TRES might as well be gnats - the martins completely ignore them. The only interest martins ever show is in the TRES housing; martins would probably try to claim the TRES gourds if they could get in the BB-sized holes!
Good luck growing your colony, Mary
Once you get a strong martin colony -which you now have- the martins are dominant over TRES and they tolerate TRES.
I have so many TRES nesting on my property now, that there is a housing shortage for them. For the last couple of years a TRES pair has claimed a gourd on a martin rack very early in the season. The martins living in the rack utterly ignored them. Both years I simply erected a Bluebird hole gourd on a shepherd's hook at the base of the martin gourd rack and the TRES moved down there immediately. That TRES pair perches on the martin gourd racks all the time, but they don't allow other TRES near them.
Realize that the martin/tree swallow dynamics at my site are completely different than those you have experienced over the years. I had a strong martin colony for 10 years before I first (intentionally) attracted nesting TRES. So martins have always been dominant here. The TRES might as well be gnats - the martins completely ignore them. The only interest martins ever show is in the TRES housing; martins would probably try to claim the TRES gourds if they could get in the BB-sized holes!
Good luck growing your colony, Mary
Click here to see my colony
"In Michigan every martin matters"
"In Michigan every martin matters"
-
Guest
Hi Mary,
Thank you so much for your reply. I wanted to leave the TS alone just to see what would happen. I am going to open up the rest of the gourds now since it doesn't seem to matter. As long as the martins aren't bothered it will be fun to watch them all together.
All this new activity is so much fun this year!!!!! And I still haven't seen a single SY so the best is yet to come!
Joyce
Thank you so much for your reply. I wanted to leave the TS alone just to see what would happen. I am going to open up the rest of the gourds now since it doesn't seem to matter. As long as the martins aren't bothered it will be fun to watch them all together.
All this new activity is so much fun this year!!!!! And I still haven't seen a single SY so the best is yet to come!
Joyce
-
Mary Dawnsong
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:17 pm
- Location: Michigan, Livingston County
It is loads of fun having a mix of swallow species living together. I have 5 pairs of TRES in a 200' X 50' area, which is about the maximum my geometry can handle. Along with the ubiquitous Barnies, they add another dimension because they occupy different air space than the martins do. TRES perch and fly lower and they fly under trees. So, they hunt all over our yard, which the martins don't do because it is too closed in.
TRES live at a "human height" so I have closer encounters with them than with the martins. Someday one is going to fly right into my face, but it hasn't happened yet. They are also great martin allies because they are much better sentries. Martins are often too socially distracted to be good lookouts, but they respond to the TRES hawk alerts.
Joyce, you might want to move a gourd down to 5-6' height level for the TRES, preferably one with a BB-sized hole. Otherwise, the TRES are going to want to occupy that spot from now on - and you will be needing the room for martins, soon. I have not seen conflicts between TRES and martins at my site, but why not just avoid any potential problem?
TRES live at a "human height" so I have closer encounters with them than with the martins. Someday one is going to fly right into my face, but it hasn't happened yet. They are also great martin allies because they are much better sentries. Martins are often too socially distracted to be good lookouts, but they respond to the TRES hawk alerts.
Joyce, you might want to move a gourd down to 5-6' height level for the TRES, preferably one with a BB-sized hole. Otherwise, the TRES are going to want to occupy that spot from now on - and you will be needing the room for martins, soon. I have not seen conflicts between TRES and martins at my site, but why not just avoid any potential problem?
Click here to see my colony
"In Michigan every martin matters"
"In Michigan every martin matters"
Joyce,
I believe Mary is right! I'd try to avoid allowing the TS to nest in a martin cavity. You should be able to avoid it by offering them "separate TS housing" near-by. [Let's avoid the argument about geometry.]
Although you have site loyal returning martins and need not worry about losing your colony, I have very good reason (experience last year) to believe that tree swallows living in the air space of your PM rig MIGHT (probably will?) have an effect on the behavior of your martiins... and the possibility of getting addional (especially new) martins there.
Last year, after I already had two nesting pair of martins, my "sentinel pair" of TS suffered a sparrow attack and deserted their "designated housing" for a martin gourd while my back was turned. I tried every which way to get them out of there; but to no avail. It is my belief that their presence "in the colony" caused two "bad" things to happen:
1. I GOT NO MORE MARTINS, even though I'm sure I would have if I could have moved the TS. But I am "over water" and had limited options to offer them... and they WOULD NOT FOLLOW THEIR GOURD regardless where I put it... and regardless I was almost upset enough to "dispatch" them.
2. ONE OF MY NESTING PAIR was "driven crazy" by the TS pair and wound up "moving" and nesting and fledging (5) in a TS gourd over on the bank some 60 feet from the PM rig. VERY ABNORMAL... and I feel certain it was because of the TRES invasion.
Observing the requirement to "follow my own advice" I must admit there is no reason to "expect" such odd things to happen at your site just because they happened at mine. All the same, I'd follow Mary's advice... and also her reasoning:
I believe Mary is right! I'd try to avoid allowing the TS to nest in a martin cavity. You should be able to avoid it by offering them "separate TS housing" near-by. [Let's avoid the argument about geometry.]
Although you have site loyal returning martins and need not worry about losing your colony, I have very good reason (experience last year) to believe that tree swallows living in the air space of your PM rig MIGHT (probably will?) have an effect on the behavior of your martiins... and the possibility of getting addional (especially new) martins there.
Last year, after I already had two nesting pair of martins, my "sentinel pair" of TS suffered a sparrow attack and deserted their "designated housing" for a martin gourd while my back was turned. I tried every which way to get them out of there; but to no avail. It is my belief that their presence "in the colony" caused two "bad" things to happen:
1. I GOT NO MORE MARTINS, even though I'm sure I would have if I could have moved the TS. But I am "over water" and had limited options to offer them... and they WOULD NOT FOLLOW THEIR GOURD regardless where I put it... and regardless I was almost upset enough to "dispatch" them.
2. ONE OF MY NESTING PAIR was "driven crazy" by the TS pair and wound up "moving" and nesting and fledging (5) in a TS gourd over on the bank some 60 feet from the PM rig. VERY ABNORMAL... and I feel certain it was because of the TRES invasion.
Observing the requirement to "follow my own advice" I must admit there is no reason to "expect" such odd things to happen at your site just because they happened at mine. All the same, I'd follow Mary's advice... and also her reasoning:
Good luck! ~Danwhy not just avoid any potential problem?
-
Guest
Dan and Mary,
Thank you both for your advice. I did open up all gourds yesterday and, as I expected, the TS were very excited to see new housing available! At first I thought they would chose a gourd but to my surprise they did not! Today I have seen very little of them!
Of course I am not naive enough to think that the battle is over. The TS are still around and to my knowledge they are not committed anywhere yet. I will take both of your advice and offer them alternate housing away from my rack.
I want to upset the martins as little as possible as most of them have nests underway. The last thing I need now is TS interference with the sub adults soon to arrive - which I still have not yet seen! They are late for this area according to my records.
I'm curious Dan how you're colony is doing this year. Did your martins return and bring others with them? I was fortunate enough to get both males from last year back and we picked up 3 more ASY males! All males now have mates. It is amazing to me how quickly an ASY male can attract a mate!
Thanks again and enjoy your martins!
Joyce
Thank you both for your advice. I did open up all gourds yesterday and, as I expected, the TS were very excited to see new housing available! At first I thought they would chose a gourd but to my surprise they did not! Today I have seen very little of them!
Of course I am not naive enough to think that the battle is over. The TS are still around and to my knowledge they are not committed anywhere yet. I will take both of your advice and offer them alternate housing away from my rack.
I want to upset the martins as little as possible as most of them have nests underway. The last thing I need now is TS interference with the sub adults soon to arrive - which I still have not yet seen! They are late for this area according to my records.
I'm curious Dan how you're colony is doing this year. Did your martins return and bring others with them? I was fortunate enough to get both males from last year back and we picked up 3 more ASY males! All males now have mates. It is amazing to me how quickly an ASY male can attract a mate!
Thanks again and enjoy your martins!
Joyce
-
Guest
Joyce,
Will you tell me where Landenbugh PA is at? And how many pairs do you have and how long have you been a landlord? I live in NW PA and I have been trying off and on since 1980.I do have a male that been here for 11 days but he can't get a female to stay.
Thanks
Don
Will you tell me where Landenbugh PA is at? And how many pairs do you have and how long have you been a landlord? I live in NW PA and I have been trying off and on since 1980.I do have a male that been here for 11 days but he can't get a female to stay.
Thanks
Don
-
Bernie Nikolai
- Posts: 402
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:44 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Joyce, last year at my largest colony (16 pairs) I was astounded to see a tree swallow pair nest in an apartment style house (8"x13" compartment size, with SREH) along with 5 pairs of martins! The martins treated it like another martin, and the tree swallows seemed to get along very well with the martins. Scenes similar to your photo were common. All the martins and the tree swallows fledged their young in this house.
Just this morning I was at this colony site, checking on my experimental styrofoam housing. There are about a dozen martins back, all happily entering the SREH entrances, PLUS ONE PAIR OF TREE SWALLOWS! The same as last year, the martins seem to treat the swallows as a "little brother" and are not aggressive to the tree swallow pair in any way. The tree swallows have claimed a compartment, and tolerate the martins as easily and in the same manner as if they were martins themselves.
Unlike Dan, I did have 2 SY martin pairs arrive and nest in this house last year after the ASY martin pairs and tree swallow pair had nested. Our SY birds arrive June 1-15 approximately.
We have a huge tree swallow population up here, caused by many "bluebird trails" the houses of which are 99% used by tree swallows and only 1% by mountain bluebirds. I personally don't plan to "evict" the tree swallows, since there appeared to be complete harmony last year. I don't recommend this approach, but I'm going on my last year's experience. It may even be the same tree swallow pair from last year. If the swallows in any way get aggressive with any of the martins, I will take other measures, adding a "shepherds crook gourd". But if 11 pairs of martins and one pair of tree swallows choose to live in harmony as an exception to the rule for me in this one apartment house, I kind of like the idea.
Just this morning I was at this colony site, checking on my experimental styrofoam housing. There are about a dozen martins back, all happily entering the SREH entrances, PLUS ONE PAIR OF TREE SWALLOWS! The same as last year, the martins seem to treat the swallows as a "little brother" and are not aggressive to the tree swallow pair in any way. The tree swallows have claimed a compartment, and tolerate the martins as easily and in the same manner as if they were martins themselves.
Unlike Dan, I did have 2 SY martin pairs arrive and nest in this house last year after the ASY martin pairs and tree swallow pair had nested. Our SY birds arrive June 1-15 approximately.
We have a huge tree swallow population up here, caused by many "bluebird trails" the houses of which are 99% used by tree swallows and only 1% by mountain bluebirds. I personally don't plan to "evict" the tree swallows, since there appeared to be complete harmony last year. I don't recommend this approach, but I'm going on my last year's experience. It may even be the same tree swallow pair from last year. If the swallows in any way get aggressive with any of the martins, I will take other measures, adding a "shepherds crook gourd". But if 11 pairs of martins and one pair of tree swallows choose to live in harmony as an exception to the rule for me in this one apartment house, I kind of like the idea.
He who harbors the nesting bird shall have health and happiness all the year
-
Guest
Hi Don,
Landenberg, PA is located in the very south east corner of PA right where the PA, Md and DE lines meet. We are only a few miles from Newark, Delaware. According to mapquest I am about 300 miles from you.
I began trying to attract martins nine years ago. Every year, including the first year, I have had SY martins staying and/or investigating our site. In 2001 we had one pair that stayed and raised one baby. That male came back the following spring but died in a cold spell (lesson - learn supplemental feeding BEFORE you need it!) I had to start over.
Last year we finally had 2 SY martin pairs raise nine babies. Those 2 males returned as ASY's on April 21. By April 24 we had 5 ASY males. I have no idea where the extra 3 males came from but I am very happy they chose our place! As of yesterday all 5 males have mates and much nest buiding is going on!
It is a good sign that your male is staying. It sounds as if he is committed to your place. Do you know if it is an ASY or SY male? If it is an ASY you probably have nothing to worry about as far as him attracting a mate. An SY male may take longer. I had many, many SY visitors over the years that never did attract a female.
The key is persistance. Please do not give up! Read the archives on this forum and teach yourself what makes a good martin environment. Read the forum and ask questions if necessary. Many people here have so much more experience than I ever will and are very willing to help. You need to be ready for a martin when it appears and of course you never know when that will be!
There are three Cranberry's in PA. If I chose the correct one you are almost in Andy Troyer and PMCA territory so you should certainly have martins in your area. Be diligent in keeping your housing starling and sparrow free and be patient if that's possible!! You may get your colony this year!
Good luck!
Joyce
Landenberg, PA is located in the very south east corner of PA right where the PA, Md and DE lines meet. We are only a few miles from Newark, Delaware. According to mapquest I am about 300 miles from you.
I began trying to attract martins nine years ago. Every year, including the first year, I have had SY martins staying and/or investigating our site. In 2001 we had one pair that stayed and raised one baby. That male came back the following spring but died in a cold spell (lesson - learn supplemental feeding BEFORE you need it!) I had to start over.
Last year we finally had 2 SY martin pairs raise nine babies. Those 2 males returned as ASY's on April 21. By April 24 we had 5 ASY males. I have no idea where the extra 3 males came from but I am very happy they chose our place! As of yesterday all 5 males have mates and much nest buiding is going on!
It is a good sign that your male is staying. It sounds as if he is committed to your place. Do you know if it is an ASY or SY male? If it is an ASY you probably have nothing to worry about as far as him attracting a mate. An SY male may take longer. I had many, many SY visitors over the years that never did attract a female.
The key is persistance. Please do not give up! Read the archives on this forum and teach yourself what makes a good martin environment. Read the forum and ask questions if necessary. Many people here have so much more experience than I ever will and are very willing to help. You need to be ready for a martin when it appears and of course you never know when that will be!
There are three Cranberry's in PA. If I chose the correct one you are almost in Andy Troyer and PMCA territory so you should certainly have martins in your area. Be diligent in keeping your housing starling and sparrow free and be patient if that's possible!! You may get your colony this year!
Good luck!
Joyce
-
Guest
Hi Bernie,
That type of TS behavior is so different from what I normally see that I never would have guessed that the two species could live together in the same rack peacefully! We have a larage TS population here as wll and they are very aggressive toward the martins!
The only time I ever saw them perch together was the year I had one martin pair. I missed my opportunity to take a picture of the martins, TS and Barnswallows all perching peacefully side by side on my gourd rack! That was the only year I ever witnessed that scene!
I too, like the idea of having many different birds occupy our air space but since the TS are so easy to attract and the martins seem to be so difficult I want to keep the colony safe from any interference this year. Once it grows enough so I feel I don't need to worry maybe I'll get brave enough to try letting TS closer. For this year though I think I will make the TS move to the same house they are always welcome to use - away from the martins!
Good luck with your colony this year!
Joyce
That type of TS behavior is so different from what I normally see that I never would have guessed that the two species could live together in the same rack peacefully! We have a larage TS population here as wll and they are very aggressive toward the martins!
The only time I ever saw them perch together was the year I had one martin pair. I missed my opportunity to take a picture of the martins, TS and Barnswallows all perching peacefully side by side on my gourd rack! That was the only year I ever witnessed that scene!
I too, like the idea of having many different birds occupy our air space but since the TS are so easy to attract and the martins seem to be so difficult I want to keep the colony safe from any interference this year. Once it grows enough so I feel I don't need to worry maybe I'll get brave enough to try letting TS closer. For this year though I think I will make the TS move to the same house they are always welcome to use - away from the martins!
Good luck with your colony this year!
Joyce
-
Guest
i've had some strange TS behaviour here too, but in regards to BB's. i had 2 BB nests in 2 different areas (one at my house and one at my dad's about 1/3 mile away). both had 5 babies. both had TS perching ON the BB house, constantly. the one at my dad's, the 5 babies are dead. the one at my house, so far are fine.
i see TS going into the BB house w/ babies. at 1st i thought the TS were sitting on the houses, preventing the BB's from feeding the young, at which case they would take over the house. this may or may not be what happened at my dad's as i can't watch that one as often. but, as of thurs, the BB's at my house were fine. it almost looks like the TS are helping raise the BB's, but i can't be sure what they are doing.
i have such an abundance of TS here (1 nest at my house, 2 at dad's...3 if they take over the abandoned BB nest), it would not surprise me if they are taking a passive approach at eliminating the BB's by preventing them from feeding the young. again, i can't know for sure what happened at the one BB house, and so far, the BB's in the 2nd house are fine.
i see TS going into the BB house w/ babies. at 1st i thought the TS were sitting on the houses, preventing the BB's from feeding the young, at which case they would take over the house. this may or may not be what happened at my dad's as i can't watch that one as often. but, as of thurs, the BB's at my house were fine. it almost looks like the TS are helping raise the BB's, but i can't be sure what they are doing.
i have such an abundance of TS here (1 nest at my house, 2 at dad's...3 if they take over the abandoned BB nest), it would not surprise me if they are taking a passive approach at eliminating the BB's by preventing them from feeding the young. again, i can't know for sure what happened at the one BB house, and so far, the BB's in the 2nd house are fine.
Right now, Joyce, we are struggling through some very cold (46) and bad weather here in central Indiana... as you have probably read. It's difficult to be "upbeat" when such a threat is overhead. All the same, I have to say I have been VERY VERY lucky this year.I'm curious Dan how you're colony is doing this year.
By mid April I had 4 ASY males "parked" here... two of which were probably "dads" from last year's fledgings. The other two were "pure luck" and I have to think they came here because there are many "unattended" and "run-down" colonies near-by. Some near-by sites might also be "full" ...even though the "no vacancy" situation is the result of S&S invasions.
Things have gone well since my original "four horsemen" arrived. At the moment I have at least 12 martins altogether... as well as I can count them. [I'm sure you know how hard it is to keep track when they are flitting about so with "recruiting" and "pecking order" activities.] I am confident that I have at least 4 (and probably 6) nests underway... but no martin eggs yet... which is probably a good thing with this horrible cold weather upon us. [I have 10 TS pair.. all of which are sitting on eggs.]
I am told it's likely that there will STILL be more SY's arriving in our area; but the pattern of things makes me think that the "influx of SY's" might have occurred already. My colony seemed to "explode" from the "original four" to the present 12 in just one or two days the first week of May. At least it seemed that way. I'll be happy to host more martins; but I feel lucky already and I certainly don't "expect" any more.
As for the question of whether "my martins" from last year have returned: I would only be guessing; but there were, indeed, 10 fledglings here last year. I can only assume that some of those now residing, nesting, and recruiting here, are SY's from last year's successful season... odd as it was.
Despite the bad weather, my "happy dozen" seems to be in good shape as of this afternoon. I even saw them (along with the TS) "catching bugs" this afternoon during a lull in the horrific wind and cold rain we have had. The temperature was in the "high 40's" so I'm sure the hunting was not very good. We have already put out "smashed boiled eggs" ...and might have to resort to "cricket flipping" tomorrow... even though it is mothers' day.
Actually, the "predicted high" for tomorrow is the "mid 50's" so I have every reason to believe things will be fine... and that SOME of what you've been reading on the message board is "hysteria." We shall see! Sorry to be long winded... and please know that I send you every good wish for a successful season!
Dan