Not Martins - Barn Swallows
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Guest
Does anyone have experience attracting barn swallows? I have nesting shelves in my shed and outside my shed i have a "mud pit" for them about 25 feet from my shed. They use the mud pit and fly away with the mud. Any suggestions to help attract barn swallows?
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
The barn swallows like to build their nests in a secluded area where the owls cannot find them. Make sure your nesting shelves are near the ceiling. They like to be behind a wall of some sort, like above the door where the wall is about 16inches down. If they are in an open area, they will not nest there. Also, rat snakes quickly scare them away.
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Mary Dawnsong
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:17 pm
- Location: Michigan, Livingston County
Here's a great Barn Swallow website. Attraction info and a source of artificial nests:
http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/per/b4.htm
http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/per/b4.htm
Click here to see my colony
"In Michigan every martin matters"
"In Michigan every martin matters"
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Guest
All you need to attract barnies is...........a loud riding mower 
I have a bunch of them that nest under a nearby bridge. Seems everytime I get the mower out, here they come. Just feeding on the bugs that get kicked up.
I have a bunch of them that nest under a nearby bridge. Seems everytime I get the mower out, here they come. Just feeding on the bugs that get kicked up.
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Guest
I have a DIESEL Kubota riding mower. Last night when I mowed the "back 40" I had almost 30 swallows. 20 or so Barns and about 10 Trees, They use the mud station I created but they take my mud and go elsewhere. I just want them to stay. I must say with nesting EABB and TRES the backyard has 0 bugs to come bother us if there are bugs I just whistle and my EABB male comes to investigate and the normally attracts the TRES who swoop in and have their fill. I have great Habitat here for all species of swallows but only get TRES I hope to get a martin colony setup this fall to be ready next spring. I have also been given barn swallow nests that my uncle took down last fall (he hates birds) I have them in my shed and on nesting shelves. WHY WON"T THEY STAY :(
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Guest
Mowing our yard attracts the bluebirds. It is fun to watch them, especially if there is a clutch of new fledglings involved. The male BB will get all of the young ones learning to hunt behind the mower. They will fly up into a nearby tree each time I come around with the tractor and they hit the ground for bugs again before I am more than fifteen feet past them. We have over two and a half acres that I mow so it is the happy hunting ground for them !
I'm like you with plenty of tree swallows but the barnies never stay. I did erect a nesting ledge for them but after readings Emil's post I realize that it is too exposed. I would like to build a roofed area off our pole barn that will provide exposed beams for them to nest in under the shelter of the roof.
Jeff
! I'm like you with plenty of tree swallows but the barnies never stay. I did erect a nesting ledge for them but after readings Emil's post I realize that it is too exposed. I would like to build a roofed area off our pole barn that will provide exposed beams for them to nest in under the shelter of the roof.
Jeff
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Guest
According to every source I have found I am doing everything correctly to attract barnies but they just won't stay here they go across the street and nest on the front of my neighbors house. I want to birdnap them and show them it's better here in my yard than over there. I want them Neighbors want to remove them. I did convince my neighbor to allow them to nest and at least get rid of some of his bugs. I told him after nesting season I'll remove the nests since I want them to try to coax a colony to live at my place. I'll treat them right just ask my bluebirds.
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Guest
Don't you hate it when you want them and would care for them so much better than where they are now? Kind of reminds me of dating when I was much younger (and just a little more foolish). Remember how the prettiest girls would go out with the real jerks and you just knew that nobody was more qualified to make her happy than yourself? Who knew that all these years later we would have to deal with rejection from martins, barnies, and other birds 
? Oh, the humanity of it.... 
I hope those barnies wake up and realize the nesting is better on the other side of the street - good luck.
Jeff
? Oh, the humanity of it.... I hope those barnies wake up and realize the nesting is better on the other side of the street - good luck.
Jeff
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Sharon - Central TX
- Posts: 696
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:20 pm
- Location: Central TX
- Martin Colony History: All Troyer Horizontal Gourds with Conley Entrances
PMCA Member since 2004
We have two nests of the adorable Barn Swallows currently at our home. In all honesty, we did nothing to attract them so I can only tell you what they are attracted to.
Our house (along with several others in the area) has a tall, large covered front and back porch made out of TX limestone (typical TX white limestone house). Both porches have an overhang of about 18" on the outside. They like to nest in a corner inside the porch near the front where the side of the porch wall and the overhang in the front meet. They don't build it all the way to the top. The nests are usually about 6" or so down. They have built here for three seasons now, the length of time our house has been built. They have also built on our back porch. Last year they built one on the inside of the overhang but more towards the middle. That surprised me as I had always seen them near corners. They successfully fledged 5. This year a pair built on the back but did choose a corner and the blankety blank house sparrows robbed the nest of the eggs and the barnies abandoned it
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The nest on the front porch was also attacked but the barnies regrouped, remodeled it a little and started over. So far so good.
The newest one though is on the side of our house. There is an overhang there but they built right on top of a gutter that curves out from the wall but is still under the overhang. Really strange. Seems like they are more open to bad weather but we have had some super strong storms and it is still there with mom on the eggs.
We live in a semi-rural area as this used to be all ranch property. The lots are all 1 acre or larger so the homes aren't real close together. We have a small lake behind our 2.3 acre property so the birds don't have to go far to get their mud. We watch them make what must be hundreds of trips back and forth when they build. They are really awesome and such hard workers. It takes them almost two weeks to build a nest. To see them lose their eggs after working so hard makes me so mad I can't tell you :-).
We have left the abandoned nest on our back porch in place as the sparrows seem to like to come and explore it looking for some evil deed they can do. It's a perfect spot to let them continue to prey on because I can quietly open our back door and quickly dispose of them.
I know this is long, but maybe it will give you some insight as to what types of places they like to build their nests. There are not many barns left around here so I guess this is how they have adapted.
Most of my neighbors who have the taller porches also have nests, so they seem to like the height. It is easy access for them (no windows), just fly on in and land. Lots of places for daddy to perch on the porch once things get serious.
I hope this helps. I think it is like they say with martins - "location, location" :-).
Sharon
Our house (along with several others in the area) has a tall, large covered front and back porch made out of TX limestone (typical TX white limestone house). Both porches have an overhang of about 18" on the outside. They like to nest in a corner inside the porch near the front where the side of the porch wall and the overhang in the front meet. They don't build it all the way to the top. The nests are usually about 6" or so down. They have built here for three seasons now, the length of time our house has been built. They have also built on our back porch. Last year they built one on the inside of the overhang but more towards the middle. That surprised me as I had always seen them near corners. They successfully fledged 5. This year a pair built on the back but did choose a corner and the blankety blank house sparrows robbed the nest of the eggs and the barnies abandoned it
. The nest on the front porch was also attacked but the barnies regrouped, remodeled it a little and started over. So far so good.
The newest one though is on the side of our house. There is an overhang there but they built right on top of a gutter that curves out from the wall but is still under the overhang. Really strange. Seems like they are more open to bad weather but we have had some super strong storms and it is still there with mom on the eggs.
We live in a semi-rural area as this used to be all ranch property. The lots are all 1 acre or larger so the homes aren't real close together. We have a small lake behind our 2.3 acre property so the birds don't have to go far to get their mud. We watch them make what must be hundreds of trips back and forth when they build. They are really awesome and such hard workers. It takes them almost two weeks to build a nest. To see them lose their eggs after working so hard makes me so mad I can't tell you :-).
We have left the abandoned nest on our back porch in place as the sparrows seem to like to come and explore it looking for some evil deed they can do. It's a perfect spot to let them continue to prey on because I can quietly open our back door and quickly dispose of them.
I know this is long, but maybe it will give you some insight as to what types of places they like to build their nests. There are not many barns left around here so I guess this is how they have adapted.
Most of my neighbors who have the taller porches also have nests, so they seem to like the height. It is easy access for them (no windows), just fly on in and land. Lots of places for daddy to perch on the porch once things get serious.
I hope this helps. I think it is like they say with martins - "location, location" :-).
Sharon
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Guest
We have a lot of barn swallows up at the lake house. I would love to attract them to nest around our house. Is it too late in the year for this season? Our carport has a pitched ceiling w/rafters. How can I get them to be attracted to our place?
Lanell
Lanell
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Guest
We had at least 14 active nests on our house last year, with up to three broods each nest. We hatched between 140 to 180 new barn swallows off our house. What a delight as the year goes on to have so many swarming about!
What is your shed sided with? If metal, they can't get their mud to attach. If painted wood or smooth siding, same problem. Our house is rough, unfinished cedar, and works great for them. Our neighbor half a mile away has white painted house and shed, and metal, and can't get them despite the fact they have a big open farm barn. I have never in my life seen them nest on anything white; always on natural wood, usually dark; sometimes light colored 2x4 rafters, but always natural wood.
Second issue: they like company. If there is more company on a barn across the street, they're likely to gravitate there. Getting the first pair to pick your place will be the hardest, and from then on you'll have more.
Third issue: like purple martins, I believe they like to have swooping room. They have lots here, and we have lots of birds; neighbor has less swooping room, and no barn swallows.
They seem to prefer to nest inside when given the option, and so we let them for the first three years to get our population started. Thereafter we started training them to nest outdoors by keeping the garage door shut until they had their nests built. Though they don't require it, they like a support to build upon, and nest readily on a high light fixture just under the eave. I then went around the house and attached numerous small shelves for them. They don't nest *on* the shelf as much as it gives the male a place to sit and watch the female nearby on the nest which is attached to the cedar siding. I have also found that a simple antenna wire guide screwed into the side of the house does about the same thing, providing a perch near the nest. Both the male and female seem to like to have such a perch near where they are building. If a perch is not available under the eave, they will sit on the gutter above, but then have to strain to watch the nest.
On the mowing issue, I, too, like to mow up moths for them. On cold, damp days I will purposely go mow for no purpose other than to feed the barn swallows. When I see a moth fluttering, I will slow down the mower and advance just enough to keep it fluttering. The swallows will hover ever so close to the ground and ever so close to the mower to pick these moths up. This extreme closeness only occurs on those cold days when they are going so hungry otherwise; but they will always follow the mower no matter what the weather is like.
What is your shed sided with? If metal, they can't get their mud to attach. If painted wood or smooth siding, same problem. Our house is rough, unfinished cedar, and works great for them. Our neighbor half a mile away has white painted house and shed, and metal, and can't get them despite the fact they have a big open farm barn. I have never in my life seen them nest on anything white; always on natural wood, usually dark; sometimes light colored 2x4 rafters, but always natural wood.
Second issue: they like company. If there is more company on a barn across the street, they're likely to gravitate there. Getting the first pair to pick your place will be the hardest, and from then on you'll have more.
Third issue: like purple martins, I believe they like to have swooping room. They have lots here, and we have lots of birds; neighbor has less swooping room, and no barn swallows.
They seem to prefer to nest inside when given the option, and so we let them for the first three years to get our population started. Thereafter we started training them to nest outdoors by keeping the garage door shut until they had their nests built. Though they don't require it, they like a support to build upon, and nest readily on a high light fixture just under the eave. I then went around the house and attached numerous small shelves for them. They don't nest *on* the shelf as much as it gives the male a place to sit and watch the female nearby on the nest which is attached to the cedar siding. I have also found that a simple antenna wire guide screwed into the side of the house does about the same thing, providing a perch near the nest. Both the male and female seem to like to have such a perch near where they are building. If a perch is not available under the eave, they will sit on the gutter above, but then have to strain to watch the nest.
On the mowing issue, I, too, like to mow up moths for them. On cold, damp days I will purposely go mow for no purpose other than to feed the barn swallows. When I see a moth fluttering, I will slow down the mower and advance just enough to keep it fluttering. The swallows will hover ever so close to the ground and ever so close to the mower to pick these moths up. This extreme closeness only occurs on those cold days when they are going so hungry otherwise; but they will always follow the mower no matter what the weather is like.
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Guest
OK they nest on a house with white vinyl siding above black shudders across the street. My shed is painted grey but it is rough cedar. I have it open all the time now and i have nest shelves all around the outside under the eaves. i have mud, bugs, nest support. Why don't the barnies want to live here?
I can't say I have experience attracting Barnies....they just show up at the farm every year and have atleast 2 broods a year. For their second nesting, they pick a totally different location, some times in the same building other times in a neighboring building. Be patient and if they do not nest at your place the first go around, don't be surprised if a pair choses your location for its second nesting, especially if they know there is a good food source handy.
They are fun to have around.
Good Luck!
They are fun to have around.
Good Luck!
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Guest
That's interesting, Bob, that your birds pick a different site to nest a second time. Our pairs invariably use the same nest. They will sometimes but not always build the nest up, putting a new bottom on the old foundation. In fact, this sometimes gets the nest so close to the eave that we must tear it down. But I have never seen the same nest not used two and three times a year. I have assumed it was the same pair always re-using their same nest.
This year I tore down any nest that seemed unstable, but left good nests up. I would tap them, and some would fall right down. If they could take a good tapping, and if the tops were good and well open, I'd leave them. The one on top of the light fixture is always close, so it came down. What I have found is that where a nest was knocked down, the new nest is rebuilt in precisely the same spot, whether it's on a support or on an open wall space. Where a nest has been left in place, it is immediately taken over and used. Of course, I don't know if it's a pair returning, or a new pair using an old nest. I have presumed there was a certain amount of site fidelity in these swallows.
This year I tore down any nest that seemed unstable, but left good nests up. I would tap them, and some would fall right down. If they could take a good tapping, and if the tops were good and well open, I'd leave them. The one on top of the light fixture is always close, so it came down. What I have found is that where a nest was knocked down, the new nest is rebuilt in precisely the same spot, whether it's on a support or on an open wall space. Where a nest has been left in place, it is immediately taken over and used. Of course, I don't know if it's a pair returning, or a new pair using an old nest. I have presumed there was a certain amount of site fidelity in these swallows.
Bryan,
I found it strange as well....the first nest they build is usually in the same nest they used the previous year. We too, have levels or layers of nests and they are removed when they get too high. I have noticed when they make their second nest of the season, they chose another location. To me, it would be easier to just add another level to their exisiting nest, but they do chose a different location for that 2nd nesting of the season. That has always baffled me...why use last years nest for the 1st nesting of the season, then chose a totally different location for the 2nd nest....anyone else experience this?
I found it strange as well....the first nest they build is usually in the same nest they used the previous year. We too, have levels or layers of nests and they are removed when they get too high. I have noticed when they make their second nest of the season, they chose another location. To me, it would be easier to just add another level to their exisiting nest, but they do chose a different location for that 2nd nesting of the season. That has always baffled me...why use last years nest for the 1st nesting of the season, then chose a totally different location for the 2nd nest....anyone else experience this?
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Guest
That's a tough one, T-glass. Sounds like everything should be right.tglassburner wrote:OK they nest on a house with white vinyl siding above black shudders across the street. My shed is painted grey but it is rough cedar. I have it open all the time now and i have nest shelves all around the outside under the eaves. i have mud, bugs, nest support. Why don't the barnies want to live here?
Possibilities:
Excess mature trees limiting flying zones?
Temperature? Sun exposure too high?
Bushes immediately below the nesting site? (Never thought of this issue before. Could pose risks to the birds; I've never noticed barnies nesting anywhere other than where there is open ground below them.)
Predatory animals? (Though our barnies don't hesitate to nest around our multiple cats and dogs.)
Excessive human activity? Kids?
Noise deterrents?
Sparrow infestations? (I doubt that one!)
Hmmm... What would I do if I were you....
Have you ever seen a barn swallow hanging on your cedar siding? (wanting to be sure it is a type of wood they can get their claws into, as well as stick mud to) If so, perhaps you could smear a little mud against the cedar, to give the appearance that there has been a successful nest there before. Birds often want to nest where they believe others have been successful.
Getting that first one will be tough. Getting the next ones will be easy.
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Guest
Excess mature trees limiting flying zones? nope open field.
Bushes immediately below the nesting site? nope open field
Temperature? Sun exposure too high? Not anymore sun than nest boxes.
Predatory animals? Dog possibly but shes old and lays in the same spot almost all day.
Excessive human activity? only me doing box checks tending garden and feeding EABB Kids? 2 yr old but he goes in front yard
Sparrow infestations? No match for my Carbine-action 200-shot Range Model BB Rifle With a Compass in the Stock. She still shoots good.
Bushes immediately below the nesting site? nope open field
Temperature? Sun exposure too high? Not anymore sun than nest boxes.
Predatory animals? Dog possibly but shes old and lays in the same spot almost all day.
Excessive human activity? only me doing box checks tending garden and feeding EABB Kids? 2 yr old but he goes in front yard
Sparrow infestations? No match for my Carbine-action 200-shot Range Model BB Rifle With a Compass in the Stock. She still shoots good.
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Guest
Whereas you are seeing a behavior I am not, it is possible there are differing physical factors.Bob wrote:Bryan,
I found it strange as well....the first nest they build is usually in the same nest they used the previous year. We too, have levels or layers of nests and they are removed when they get too high. I have noticed when they make their second nest of the season, they chose another location. To me, it would be easier to just add another level to their exisiting nest, but they do chose a different location for that 2nd nesting of the season. That has always baffled me...why use last years nest for the 1st nesting of the season, then chose a totally different location for the 2nd nest....anyone else experience this?
Parasites a reasonable guess. Perhaps my low humidity, heat, whatever, presents a low potential for parasitic infestations, but perhaps your environment encourages parasites, and they build a new nest to rid themselves of the problem. Next spring there's a winter kill of the parasites, and so they reuse last year's nest.
Just a thought. Next time you observe a nest being abandoned for a new nest, tear it down and examine it closely for parasites.
Then again, it could just be localized behaviors. I have never seen a barn swallow nest not used multiple times in the same year.
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Guest
Well, golly, T-Glass, I'm reduced to suggesting that you hang a sign that the first month's rent is free. But knowing how much you'd like to have them, if I ever run across an idea I'll be sure to come back and look you up. And I'll spread the word here amongst our babies to let them know some prime real estate is available in Ohio for those who want to go settlin'.
One last ditch effort. Try applying along the north or north-east side of your shed one long 1 x 8 unfinished rough cedar board, just below the eave. Dob some mud in a couple places on it and leave it there a year or two. The color of it alone might attract investigation, and then the character of its surface might encourage nesting.
The dog and the kid is undoubtedly *not* an issue. That BB gun, on the other hand....
While I'm at it, let me tell you what I do for my sparrows and starlings. I have a professional high velocity pellet rifle on which I have mounted a scope sight. Then, I removed the screen from my house window, and I rest the barrel on the window sill for stability. But the interesting part comes next. I use a photo camera tripod, resting the trigger guard where the camera would normally mount. The up/down crank is then easily manipulated for setting the elevation. It's almost like turning the cranks on an armored tank, sighting this baby in. There is zero waver in the cross hairs. I mount a piece of cardboard near the martin gourds which I can use to do a scope setting correction at any time. I guess one would say my kill ratio is quite high. All it actually takes is for a sitting starling to just poke her head out of one of the side gourds! I find this set up far superior to my earlier trapping efforts.
Then, by the way, comes the disposal issue. If you happen to be a gardener with a good compost pile...the lives of the starlings and sparrows are quite handily and honorably continued on in the form of feeding my gardens. They compost entirely very quickly.
P.S.: I hate referring to shooting "sparrows." Of course we all know we mean the English weaver finches. I would never shoot a real sparrow, of which I have many beautiful varieties around. My favorites are the white crowned and the song sparrows.
One last ditch effort. Try applying along the north or north-east side of your shed one long 1 x 8 unfinished rough cedar board, just below the eave. Dob some mud in a couple places on it and leave it there a year or two. The color of it alone might attract investigation, and then the character of its surface might encourage nesting.
The dog and the kid is undoubtedly *not* an issue. That BB gun, on the other hand....
While I'm at it, let me tell you what I do for my sparrows and starlings. I have a professional high velocity pellet rifle on which I have mounted a scope sight. Then, I removed the screen from my house window, and I rest the barrel on the window sill for stability. But the interesting part comes next. I use a photo camera tripod, resting the trigger guard where the camera would normally mount. The up/down crank is then easily manipulated for setting the elevation. It's almost like turning the cranks on an armored tank, sighting this baby in. There is zero waver in the cross hairs. I mount a piece of cardboard near the martin gourds which I can use to do a scope setting correction at any time. I guess one would say my kill ratio is quite high. All it actually takes is for a sitting starling to just poke her head out of one of the side gourds! I find this set up far superior to my earlier trapping efforts.
Then, by the way, comes the disposal issue. If you happen to be a gardener with a good compost pile...the lives of the starlings and sparrows are quite handily and honorably continued on in the form of feeding my gardens. They compost entirely very quickly.
P.S.: I hate referring to shooting "sparrows." Of course we all know we mean the English weaver finches. I would never shoot a real sparrow, of which I have many beautiful varieties around. My favorites are the white crowned and the song sparrows.