Why have porches?

[Guest]

I got interested in PMs when a pair nested in a bluebird nest box that someone gave me. The hole was too large so bluebirds rejected it. A pair of PMs moved in and I fell in live with them. Over the winter I built a T-14 and installed SREHs. I used a 35mm film cannister to test the entrances. I've spent the spring whacking Starlings. They are extremely smart, persistent and aren't all the same size! The few that can get in, get trapped inside with a T-14 wooden insert trap. The big problem is the ones that roost on the T-14 and drive the PMs away from even checking the nest boxes out. For them, I rig my wire sparrow trap onto the T-14 and bait them with bread.

I get the Starlings, but they have effectively kept the PMs away. Except for the pair in the bluebird box. They are back. The Starlings don't bother them, because Starlings need a porch. The PMs do fine in the bluebird box WITHOUT a porch. So why even have porches on the T-14?

Please tell me why I shouldn't make new fronts for my T-14 for next year with round entrances holes and no porches? It sounds to me like the logical fix for my problem.

BTW, I have been lurking here for a while and really appreciate all the great info. I'm now hooked and will make this thing work.

[Dale Hrncirik]

Starlings don't need a porch to get into a 2" round hole. I lost a PM years ago(to a murderous starling) in a SG before the advent of SREs. Starlings and HS prefer porches just like martins but none of them absolutely need them.

Good luck,
Dale

[Mary Dawnsong]

Hi dsquared,

I'm so glad you've started posting!

Please don't get offended. Someone is going to ask you this question, so I might as well be the one....
It is not unheard of, but unusual for Purple Martins to nest all by themselves in a Bluebird box, albeit a BB box with an enlarged hole. You are absolutely certain these are martins and not Tree Swallows?

Here is more info on distinguishing Tree Swallows from Purple Martins for anyone reading this who is uncertain:
http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic ... ght=#57365

One way to know for sure...
When you removed the nest at the end of last season, did it contain feathers? Purple Martins almost never put a feather in their nest, but Tree Swallows use large amounts of them - especially white feathers.

I have no experience with the T-14, but some on the forum have called it a "starling magnet".
I don't see any reason why you need to have porches on a T-14 with round holes. However, starlings absolutely do not require porches. Starlings commonly steal natural cavities from native species like woodpeckers and those cavities have no porches. I had dreadful problems with starlings in round hole martins gourds without porches.

My best, Mary

[John Miller]

Why round holes and no porches....because you've already got starling pressure and the round holes will attract them like a magnet. They have no trouble getting in without porches.

I'm not sure the presence of a starling sitting on the house will deter visiting martins. Starlings entering compartments will.

As a proponent of the film canister method, I'm the first to say don't over do it -- make it snug through very tight and you are about 1/64" over standard, and I've found that's worked for me. I think's it's an alternative, reasonable approach to trying to start first with round holes, with the intent of switching plates or doors to standard SREH once martins have taken to the compartment.

I'm having success in a park that's swimming in starlings and they often land on the housing and try briefly to get in and fly off. I can't watch all the time and maybe one will get in eventually. I do think the porch level between 1/16 and about 3/16 below the hole is equally vital to keeping starlings out to sizing of the SREH entrance hole.

Don't try round under the circumstances you describe.


John Miller

[Guest]

Mary, you're a peach. It's a pair of tree swallows in the bluebird box. The box is 100+ feet from the T-14. I also have blue bird boxes on the property. All are 300 + feet from the T-14. I guess I'll leave the T-14 up and see what happens. Next spring I'll put it back up and see if I can attract some PMs. Thanks again.

[Al Denton]

So, what size round hole(without porch) can a martin get in but a starling can't? Anybody done any testing with that? Real testing.

[CurtWelling]

Hey, tree swallows are still great!!! Now you can have tree swallows and purple martins.

The way to deploy your bluebird boxes to attract both tree swallows and BBs is this:

Put the housing out in pairs. The pair of BB houses should be almost exactly 20-21 feet apart and ideally facing each other or at least where they can see each other from the entrance. BBs and tree swallows will tolerate each other at this distance. Then the PAIRS are at least 300 feet apart. BBs defend a 150 foot radius against other BBs. I put out about 12 pairs of housing on my farm 4 years ago and I'm absolutely swamped with tree swallows now. The BBs haven't done as well, they are more susceptible to ground predators.

Good luck attracting martins as well.

[Guest]

Curt, that sounds great, I'll use your method. I'm thinking of installing wooden carpet tack strips to each of my BB box posts. I have them mounted on freestanding steel "T" type fence posts. Think that might keep the snakes and racoons away?

[roblrich]

There are plans for the T-14 using SREH's (crescent entrances). I would suggest building the T-14 with crescents if you have a starling problem.

If you haven't already, please take a look at the forum archives that have all kinds of info explaining about SREH'[s (Starling Resistent Entrance Holes).

To answer Al's question, I don't think there is a round hole that martins could use that starlings could not. At least, not universally. Starlings are different sizes in different parts of the country.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

One other thing about a SREH on a T-14, if you cut the hole directly into the wood, the martins may not be able to enter if the hole is exactly 1-3/16in. Most people use a thin entrance, like about 1/8in or 1/16in thick. I tried some 3/4in thick crescents many years ago, and the martins couldn't enter because they need some wiggle room.

Some people thin down the hole at the SREH entrance by using a router or filing it down...

[Mary Dawnsong]

Hi dsquared,

Tree Swallows are great! I am lucky to have 5 nesting pairs. I understand why you love them. Of course, they are not colonizing birds like martins. Each Tree Swallow pair needs its own separate nestbox, spaced well apart. Mine nest about 50' from each other.

You may not think I'm much of a peach for asking this question...
I'm a little concerned about the starlings that roost on your T14, defend it from Tree Swallows, and are able to squeeze into the crescent SREH. You see, that sounds more like martin behavior than starling behavior.

These starlings have long, sharp, yellow beaks, right? They look like the bird on this page (scroll down a little)...
http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckabare/pests.htm

And they do NOT have a short, slightly hooked, black beak like the bird on this page....
http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckabare/

Just checking to be sure and to ease my mind. No offense intended.

My best, Mary

[Guest]

Mary, I still think you're a peach. They are nasty, mottled Starlings with sharp yellow beaks. Now that I know for sure what a PM looks like, I don't know that I've ever seen one. I live on 15 acres, with about 5 acres of pasture and the rest woods. There are pastures and woods all around me, and I have a small stock pond on my place. I'll keep the T-14 and maybe add gourds next year. Either way, I'm enjoying the Tree Swallows BBs and all the other birds around. I'm kind of enjoying whacking Starlings now that I know how much damage they do.

[CurtWelling]

I learned the "pair" system for BB and Tree swallow houses from Andrew Troyer. Not my idea. Not sure where he got it.