Bad Day. Have a Question
The wind has been blowing here on Mobile bay all day!! We are having gusts to 30+ MPH. Several of my gourds are blowing around so much that the eggs are falling to the ground. My question is, if a pair of PMs lose all their eggs will they lay another clutch? I have not been able to check the nests yet and would think that if a pair still has at least one egg left they will raise that one. But what do they do if they lose them all? I think this may be the case in 2-3 of my gourds. The nests in the houses seem to be fine. I will hopefully be able to check some time tomorrow. However, the wind is suppose to be high then as well. Is anyone else having this problem? Next year I am going to adjust the gourds so that they do not swing as much.
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Dale Hrncirik
Tigerpitt,
Sorry to hear you are losing eggs with just 30 MPH winds. I've had nests stand up to winds at 50 mph with no problems which makes me wonder how you are hanging your gourds....Are they cinched up fairly tightly or are they hanging loosey goosey?
Not sure if the martins will lay another clutch due to wind damage. My gourds are fairly secure at the top with minimal 'front to back' motion even in high winds. If your gourds are too loose, a high wind could move them 90 degrees and the eggs will roll down and sometimes out of the entrance. There is no centripetal force with a straight line wind to keep the eggs in place...sure the gourd might stay 90 degrees above the norm but that doesn't mean the eggs will. This appears to be a misconception with some landlords...even those with years of experience. If your pole is rigid enough not to sway too much, then IMHO, it is best to secure your gourds so that they don't go from hanging down to hanging outwards at 90 degrees when a strong wind comes a blowing.
Dale
Sorry to hear you are losing eggs with just 30 MPH winds. I've had nests stand up to winds at 50 mph with no problems which makes me wonder how you are hanging your gourds....Are they cinched up fairly tightly or are they hanging loosey goosey?
Not sure if the martins will lay another clutch due to wind damage. My gourds are fairly secure at the top with minimal 'front to back' motion even in high winds. If your gourds are too loose, a high wind could move them 90 degrees and the eggs will roll down and sometimes out of the entrance. There is no centripetal force with a straight line wind to keep the eggs in place...sure the gourd might stay 90 degrees above the norm but that doesn't mean the eggs will. This appears to be a misconception with some landlords...even those with years of experience. If your pole is rigid enough not to sway too much, then IMHO, it is best to secure your gourds so that they don't go from hanging down to hanging outwards at 90 degrees when a strong wind comes a blowing.
Dale
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Guss P O'Brien
I have always connected my gourds together in either 4, 6, or 8 membered rings. They don't sway at all. Never had wind cause nest damage. Some would say I'm losing the benefit of the sway keeping sparrows away.
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CUL Lou~Mich
Guss. Another old wifes tales. Once the EHS have run out of other housing, they'll head for your gourds. They could care less about the swaying. CUL Lou
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
I am sorry for your egg loss. I have used ?swinging? gourds for over 40 years and I have not experienced eggs being tossed or rolling out of them.
First a comment about centripetal force and straight line winds. Centripetal force is a principle of physics that generally states if you have a container with material inside and the container is swinging/rotating, the material will remain toward the center and not be displaced or thrown out. A gourd with eggs or young inside could be that container. Most gourds experience straight line winds from various directions, levels of strength and duration. Relative to swinging gourds, in my opinion, centripetal force can operate with certain straight line winds and I have observed it. I have watched my gourds swing front to back and side to side with gusty 20 to 40 straight line mile per hour winds. What impacts the concept of centripetal and straight line winds is primarily the speed of the wind and its duration. Inconsistent duration in intensity of a straight line wind can allow a gourd to swing forward or to the side and create back and forth/side to side movement. If you had strong sustained winds that caused a gourd to stay suspended with the hole facing downward, then gravity would cause the eggs to fall forward. However, not all straight line winds are that strong or maintain consistent duration. Other variables as listed below can impact that action.
Gourds swing based on their weight, size, shape, and how they are suspended on the hanging rods. Heavier Super Gourds don?t swing as much as lighter naturals. Elongated horizontals, which are suspended closer to the hanging rod, don?t swing as much as regular verticals which hang down more. Gourds suspended closer to the hanging rods swing less than ones hanging farther down. If you insert the hanging rod through the neck like is often done with Super Gourds on the Deluxe racks, then the swing is greatly minimized. Once the martins finish building their nest, then the material will add some stability to the gourd and reduce swing.
If you could provide more information about the way your gourds are suspended, then we perhaps that will help us to understand why eggs are being tossed out. Again, I have never had this problem with my swinging gourds and they have been through strong winds, including Hurricane Agnes in 1972.
Steve
First a comment about centripetal force and straight line winds. Centripetal force is a principle of physics that generally states if you have a container with material inside and the container is swinging/rotating, the material will remain toward the center and not be displaced or thrown out. A gourd with eggs or young inside could be that container. Most gourds experience straight line winds from various directions, levels of strength and duration. Relative to swinging gourds, in my opinion, centripetal force can operate with certain straight line winds and I have observed it. I have watched my gourds swing front to back and side to side with gusty 20 to 40 straight line mile per hour winds. What impacts the concept of centripetal and straight line winds is primarily the speed of the wind and its duration. Inconsistent duration in intensity of a straight line wind can allow a gourd to swing forward or to the side and create back and forth/side to side movement. If you had strong sustained winds that caused a gourd to stay suspended with the hole facing downward, then gravity would cause the eggs to fall forward. However, not all straight line winds are that strong or maintain consistent duration. Other variables as listed below can impact that action.
Gourds swing based on their weight, size, shape, and how they are suspended on the hanging rods. Heavier Super Gourds don?t swing as much as lighter naturals. Elongated horizontals, which are suspended closer to the hanging rod, don?t swing as much as regular verticals which hang down more. Gourds suspended closer to the hanging rods swing less than ones hanging farther down. If you insert the hanging rod through the neck like is often done with Super Gourds on the Deluxe racks, then the swing is greatly minimized. Once the martins finish building their nest, then the material will add some stability to the gourd and reduce swing.
If you could provide more information about the way your gourds are suspended, then we perhaps that will help us to understand why eggs are being tossed out. Again, I have never had this problem with my swinging gourds and they have been through strong winds, including Hurricane Agnes in 1972.
Steve
I am using a multiple wire coated with plastic. It is very hard to cut. I guess I did not cinch it up tight enough. I went out this AM and tightened one down that was really blowing around. I use metal clamps to attach them to a half inch pvc pipes that extend out from under the old trio houses. PMs like the additional perch space. This wind has been blowing now for 2 days solid. Weather report sustained winds of 30+ MPH with gust to 50MPH. Now you must understand this has been going on continuously since Friday night! Please... my initial question was...Will these birds lay another clutch if they lose their first?
Thanks for the info everyone!
TIGERPITT
Thanks for the info everyone!
TIGERPITT
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Dale Hrncirik
TigerPitt,
I said it once and I don't mind saying it again...They might re-lay or they might not...it all depends on what they want or can do.
Steve,
Centripetal forces are at work in a centrifuge...that's the little container that spins very fast in one direction to separate usually solid from liquid. That isn't what is occuring when a gourd is experiencing straight line winds of over 30 MPH. A gourd under this situation has gone from hanging down to hanging out if you know what I mean. Try this experiment...
Take a gourd and put 6 marbles in it holding it in the normal position. Then slowly(or quickly) tilt the gourd as it would encounter a very strong wind and see where the marbles go. My point is rocking back and forth is usually okay but very heavy sustained straight line winds(that keep a gourd out of its normal position)can easily move eggs and young.
Dale
I said it once and I don't mind saying it again...They might re-lay or they might not...it all depends on what they want or can do.
Steve,
Centripetal forces are at work in a centrifuge...that's the little container that spins very fast in one direction to separate usually solid from liquid. That isn't what is occuring when a gourd is experiencing straight line winds of over 30 MPH. A gourd under this situation has gone from hanging down to hanging out if you know what I mean. Try this experiment...
Take a gourd and put 6 marbles in it holding it in the normal position. Then slowly(or quickly) tilt the gourd as it would encounter a very strong wind and see where the marbles go. My point is rocking back and forth is usually okay but very heavy sustained straight line winds(that keep a gourd out of its normal position)can easily move eggs and young.
Dale
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
I would like to see my gourds swing less. If they are hung by a wire then they will swing, the taller the gourd, the further the swing. Also, the longer the wire, the further the swing. My gourds that are tied with wire are tied as short as possible but they are allowed to swing. I tie my gourds by running the wire thru the gourds, and then both ends are tied. Some people tie it with only one wire coming down to the gourd.
Another consideration is the direction of the swing. If they swing from front to back, the eggs could fall out but most of mine swing that way and I have never seen an egg fall out. If the gourds would swing from side to side, then the eggs could not fall out
To combat some of this swing, I have been using pvc pipe to hang my gourds. I put the pvc pipe about 1/3 of the way down on the gourd, and slip the pvc pipe onto the emt tubing. By using pvc pipe, I do not tie my gourds except to keep them from slipping off the emt. I also put the pipe so that the gourds do not swing completely from side to side, or completely from front to back (about 1/2 way between). Thus, when a martin lands on them, they do move a little but not much.
It also somewhat depends up the martins. The ASY females build a very tight nest, and the eggs do not move much. It may even be fairly deep. I would suggest that pine needles be added prior to nesting, as pine needles have a tendency not to move very much.
The SY female ususally builds a very shallow nest, and it is not very tight, so those eggs could roll around a lot more.
I would think that a 50mph straightline wind would cause some disruptions in most gourds, and I don't know how to avoid it unless the gourds are tied so that they cannot swing
The way my gourd racks are built, it would be very difficult to tie the gourds so they do not swing. Every setup is different, so that makes it much harder to develop a plan so that the gourds would not swing. In general, since I have not had a problem in over 12 years, I would think it is not a serious problem overall, but of course it is serious to the individuals that have this occur.
Another consideration is the direction of the swing. If they swing from front to back, the eggs could fall out but most of mine swing that way and I have never seen an egg fall out. If the gourds would swing from side to side, then the eggs could not fall out
To combat some of this swing, I have been using pvc pipe to hang my gourds. I put the pvc pipe about 1/3 of the way down on the gourd, and slip the pvc pipe onto the emt tubing. By using pvc pipe, I do not tie my gourds except to keep them from slipping off the emt. I also put the pipe so that the gourds do not swing completely from side to side, or completely from front to back (about 1/2 way between). Thus, when a martin lands on them, they do move a little but not much.
It also somewhat depends up the martins. The ASY females build a very tight nest, and the eggs do not move much. It may even be fairly deep. I would suggest that pine needles be added prior to nesting, as pine needles have a tendency not to move very much.
The SY female ususally builds a very shallow nest, and it is not very tight, so those eggs could roll around a lot more.
I would think that a 50mph straightline wind would cause some disruptions in most gourds, and I don't know how to avoid it unless the gourds are tied so that they cannot swing
The way my gourd racks are built, it would be very difficult to tie the gourds so they do not swing. Every setup is different, so that makes it much harder to develop a plan so that the gourds would not swing. In general, since I have not had a problem in over 12 years, I would think it is not a serious problem overall, but of course it is serious to the individuals that have this occur.