Please advise on Exclluder II vs. WDC holes
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marilena~MD
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:07 pm
- Location: Maryland/Denton
I am getting ready to order some new entrances for my gourds that I grew last year and wonder what would be preferable to use? I would appreciate any help on this topic. thanks.[/b]
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apundt-TX
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- Martin Colony History: :
2022-1 pair
1 pair 2021
2020- Didn't get setup fast enough in Pflugerville
2019- Apartment
2018 Divorce lost Colony in Dripping Springs
19 pair 2017
17 pair 2015
12 pair 2014
8 pair 2013
5 pair 2012
2 pair 2011
For my plasic and natural gourds I use a WDC entrance. Send me a private email on were get them. I also use 4 inch wide Sewer and Drain pipe PVC for tunnels. Cut at 3 inced long. I put 2 inches outside the gourd and 1 inch in.
A.P.
A.P.
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Guest
WDC is the way to go - they are less constrictive. Get them from PMCA ( they tend to make their profits on shipping charges), or from Sandy (great service/prices) or make them yourself if you have the time and capability.
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apundt-TX
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:34 pm
- Location: Pflugerville, Texas
- Martin Colony History: :
2022-1 pair
1 pair 2021
2020- Didn't get setup fast enough in Pflugerville
2019- Apartment
2018 Divorce lost Colony in Dripping Springs
19 pair 2017
17 pair 2015
12 pair 2014
8 pair 2013
5 pair 2012
2 pair 2011
uv got mail.
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Guest
As the others said the WDC is less restrictive and the martins learn them fast. In general, it will take longer for martins to learn the Excluder II.
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John Miller
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I'm getting less confident about the names of these entrances. If anyone has insight, it might be helpful to me and to others.
The WDC is easier for martins to learn. But it's sometimes called the modified excluder?
The excluder is what folks say looks like bat wings and is toughest on strarlings but sometimes a little harder for martins to learn. Now we call it, or some variation, the excluder II?
Am I correct on above?
The WDC is easier for martins to learn. But it's sometimes called the modified excluder?
The excluder is what folks say looks like bat wings and is toughest on strarlings but sometimes a little harder for martins to learn. Now we call it, or some variation, the excluder II?
Am I correct on above?
John, you can go to you PMCA 2006 Martin Market Place Catalog and it shows a picture of Excluder II's IMO Excluder's are one persons design and WDC's are a different person's design. I know WDC's all come with patent numbers on them which tells me they are totally different from Excluder name!?!, But I don't know the exact history in either just what I've read. A better picture view go to page 6 of the catalog.
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Dave S (Texas)
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:42 am
- Location: Round Rock, Tx
I'm thinking of modifying both my SGs and Horz to WDC tunnel entrances. I can't find the specs for the modified version of that SRE. Any help? Thanks
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Sandy - NC
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- Location: Rocky Mount, NC
Here is a brief history. The Excluder was designed and patented by Duke Snyder. The WDC Modified Excluder was designed by someone else, and he called it the WDC. Because of the way the patent is written, the WDC automatically fell under the patent rights of the Excluder, so the patent holder wants it called the WDC Modified Excluder. The Excluder II is another SREH that Duke Snyder designed.
The patent was written very well, so if you are planning on designing SREH, I highly suggest that you get a copy of the patent and study it very well, particularly the claims at the back of the patent. Also, because of the type of patent, it is technically illegal to make any of these entrances for your own personal use, for you to make and give away, and definitely illegal to make and sell unless you have an agreement with the patent holder. These are just the facts, and not my own personal feelings nor a commentary.
The patent was written very well, so if you are planning on designing SREH, I highly suggest that you get a copy of the patent and study it very well, particularly the claims at the back of the patent. Also, because of the type of patent, it is technically illegal to make any of these entrances for your own personal use, for you to make and give away, and definitely illegal to make and sell unless you have an agreement with the patent holder. These are just the facts, and not my own personal feelings nor a commentary.
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Guest
In other words anyone selling Excluder/II and WDC has to be authorized/pay royalty fees to D.S. (or whoever purchases the rights to the patent). If I make 14 WDC's for my home built t14 (that might be another patent infraction ?) I am committing a crime and can be persecuted. Wow - I might just be better off pretending that starlings don't exist.
In Mr D.S.'s shoes I wouldn't sleep too well (unless it was on a bed made from $ bills). That would explain why crescent still exist and are used to describe adjustable entrances and why nobody uses adjustable excluders (it would be a no-no subject probably ending up in court).
Where does the welfare of PM's fit in this??? Mr D.S. probably spent a considerable amount of time/money developing the product and should be compensated for this accordingly but an ironclad patent is an overkill. I wounder how much input PM landlords had into his development of the end product.
In Mr D.S.'s shoes I wouldn't sleep too well (unless it was on a bed made from $ bills). That would explain why crescent still exist and are used to describe adjustable entrances and why nobody uses adjustable excluders (it would be a no-no subject probably ending up in court).
Where does the welfare of PM's fit in this??? Mr D.S. probably spent a considerable amount of time/money developing the product and should be compensated for this accordingly but an ironclad patent is an overkill. I wounder how much input PM landlords had into his development of the end product.
Sandy I take you directed that for my benefit also. 
I was never one to listen to a lecture. 
Well, I read the patent a couple of years ago. Sounds like old duke written it so anything but round falls under his design with posts with claims to PREVENT starling from entering. IMO the facts are wrong starlings have been reported to enter. IMO and the way I interpet the patent the Excluder's are not SREH's, they are SPEH's. the "P" being PREVENT, so there a problem right there. 
Personally, I don't like the Excluder too restrictive on PM's. I cut the posts off mine that I brought from the PMCA. After I had two deaths in Crescents I figured I could make something better for PM's. As for the WDC's that I brought, I have no complaints so far.
As far as my PM entry holes (RCMREH), they don't fall under his dimensions or claims IMO, but I'm no money grubber or lawyer, I will use them for my own personnel use, and the betterment of my colony if they work
. This will be my last post on subject of SPEH (AKA EXCLUDER), even talking about them could be violation of the said patent 6,513,454.
I was never one to listen to a lecture. Well, I read the patent a couple of years ago. Sounds like old duke written it so anything but round falls under his design with posts with claims to PREVENT starling from entering. IMO the facts are wrong starlings have been reported to enter. IMO and the way I interpet the patent the Excluder's are not SREH's, they are SPEH's. the "P" being PREVENT, so there a problem right there. Personally, I don't like the Excluder too restrictive on PM's. I cut the posts off mine that I brought from the PMCA. After I had two deaths in Crescents I figured I could make something better for PM's. As for the WDC's that I brought, I have no complaints so far.
As far as my PM entry holes (RCMREH), they don't fall under his dimensions or claims IMO, but I'm no money grubber or lawyer, I will use them for my own personnel use, and the betterment of my colony if they work
. This will be my last post on subject of SPEH (AKA EXCLUDER), even talking about them could be violation of the said patent 6,513,454.-
Sandy - NC
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RC, I didn't direct towards you or anyone else. I, personally, could not care any less what people do. A question was asked about the different entrances, their names, and a history, so I provided it. I am not the patent holder, nor will I attempt to be the patent enforcer. Do whatever flips your trigger as it is none of my business.
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Sandy - NC
- Posts: 617
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:40 pm
- Location: Rocky Mount, NC
That is the way that I have understood what a Utility patent is and that is the kind of patent that is on the Excluder. Like I said, I am just relaying what I have learned, I am not the patent holder, nor the enforcer, so I don't care what people do.
Look up the definition of an utility patent, or get a patent lawyer to expain it. I am just trying to pass on what I have learned. Now, I guess I will be like RC, and not discuss it anymore. No need to shoot the messenger when all he is trying to do is help educate.
RC gave you the patent number, so look it up and read it. Then, again, do a google search and studying the definitions of the different kinds of patents.
Look up the definition of an utility patent, or get a patent lawyer to expain it. I am just trying to pass on what I have learned. Now, I guess I will be like RC, and not discuss it anymore. No need to shoot the messenger when all he is trying to do is help educate.
RC gave you the patent number, so look it up and read it. Then, again, do a google search and studying the definitions of the different kinds of patents.
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eyeamtheman
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O M G !!
Johnny
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Guest
So the little guy can be a modern day Robin Hood for sure. Any action done, by a committee of one, for the amusement of one is quite safe, in so doing. No one, in their right mind, would take action, within the court, of law against anyone playing, in their backyard or hobby arena.
Such action must be filed for, in the legal community, where the crime was committed. Because, of this requirement the cost, of so doing, is absolutely prohibitive no matter what the letter, of the law might be.
A more important fact must be proving the financial ruin your actions have created, for or to the holder, of patients or copywrite. Now at todays cost, of litigation who, in their right mind would go after an individual using small numbers, of anything, in his hobby? These are the real functional facts covering the legal action anyone would exercise.
Such action must be filed for, in the legal community, where the crime was committed. Because, of this requirement the cost, of so doing, is absolutely prohibitive no matter what the letter, of the law might be.
A more important fact must be proving the financial ruin your actions have created, for or to the holder, of patients or copywrite. Now at todays cost, of litigation who, in their right mind would go after an individual using small numbers, of anything, in his hobby? These are the real functional facts covering the legal action anyone would exercise.