A subbie with the croud?

[Guest]

Now I am wondering if we have four adults and one subbie. The two males have been picking on what I think or thought is a small female. Could a subbie have tagged along with the adults. I sometimes have a hard time telling the difference between small females and subbies. It's 7 pm, dark and they are still squabbling!

Sue

City by the Sea, TX

[Scully]

Sue, it seems unlikely but I think it COULD happen. A few birds of any species act in unusual ways, the ones that turn up in the wrong place or time driving us bird watchers into a regular tizzy of excitement, folks sometimes driving clear across the country.

Don't worry, hordes of folks aren't likely to show up looking for an early SY martin But it would be neat if you could confirm the ID of this bird.

Mike Scully

[Guest]

I don't have a great lens but if I can snap a decent photo I'll post it and let the experts take a look! The behavior of the scrapping males is the thing that seems to be a clue. Males usually don't pick on a female with such determination.

Sue
City by the Sea, TX

[Scully]

Sue... you are spot-on about the aggressive behavior. Even without a picture, I believe a glimpse of any telltale purple spots all all on the throat or breast would be a definite confirmation.

[Guest]

Yes, yes, yes! This little (possible) fellow has spots on his neck that are dappling down his breast. Also, the little fellow is shaped a bit different and smaller. I'll continue to monitor behavior tomorrow. Thanks again for the tip!

Sue
City by the Sea, TX

[Guest]

The little fellow also roosted by himself this evening.

Sue
City by the Sea, TX

[Scully]

"....This little (possible) fellow has spots on his neck that are dappling down his breast. Also, the little fellow is shaped a bit different and smaller..."

Golly, now my bird watching radar just went off.... Especially about the part that says... "shaped a bit different and smaller".

Sue.... there is a close relative of the Purple Martin that breeds as close to us as Mexico; the Gray-breasted Martin, in behavior it is almost exactly like a Purple Martin. See....
http://www.arthurgrosset.com/sabirds/gr ... artin.html

To the best of my knowledge the Gray-breasted Martin has been reported along the Texas Coast on a number of occasions.

Further south can be found the Brown-chested Martin...
http://www.arthurgrosset.com/sabirds/br ... artin.html

Almost certainly you have an early SY Purple Martin male, but a Gray-breasted Martin might be at least a distant possibility.

The Brown-chested Martin is even more unlikely yet, but to put things in perspective a Southern Martin, which breeds even further away from us than the Brown-chested (along the coast of Chile and Peru), was once collected in the Florida Keys.

Mike Scully

[Guest]

Barb ...... This is really terrible... The SHARPIE and Coopers,,, Hawks are the nasty ones... Thay are increasing at a rapid pace so that some colonies will be wiped out and in the South we will see many martins carried off.. We need help of finding a way to control these beautiful hawks.. We have few options.. Barb,, I wish you you luck hoping the hawk finds food elsewhere...Victor

[Guest]

Mike....now you have me wondering as well. The little tyke has no brown on him...just smaller and the spots on the neck continuing down his breast. I'll continue to monitor behavior. There was not as much fighting this morning...a 6th has also shown up...a beautiful male.

Sue
City by the Sea, TX

[Guest]

I am certain now I have a subbie male. He tried and tried to roost with my alpha pair and they continually pushed him out. I got a good look this morning (perched very close to deck) and I am certain he is a male PM subbie. However, I hesitate to make a report since this is an unusual event. Any thoughts? Post or not to post?

Sue
City by the Sea, TX

[Louise Chambers]

Sue, your description of the even, dappled spots reminds me a bit of an adult female - see the photos here

http://www.purplemartin.org/MartinID/martinid.html

and look at front view of ASY female - is this similar to the dappling? Also, there are photos of a heavily marked SY male there. The spots on an SY male will be purple/black in appearance rather than the dark gray on an ASY female.

Another diagnostic I find very helpful is the song - has your mystery guest given the characteristic male song with the 'chereek' sound at the end? Females never give the 'chereek' song. Sometimes the males raise the feathers on the tops of their heads a bit when they give that song (kind of gives them a mini-mohawk look for just a second )

Re the size differences - SY birds will be the same size as ASY birds, they are full sized and just have different plumage from ASY birds. Even fledgling martins are as large as adults but sometimes appear smaller since their tail and wing feathers may still do a bit of growing after they leave the nest. That depends on their age and feather development. The nestlings outweigh their parents when they reach about 21 days old, then slim down before fledging. Typical weight of a grown martin (ASY, SY, or HY (which is hatching year, or fledgling age) is about 2 ounces or 50+ grams.

Please try to get a photo that shows the spots or dappling - that would be the best way to establish this bird's ID. I hope it poses nicely - tell it we're all anxious to know! It would be very unusual for an SY bird to be here this early, when we're just seeing our first adult arrivals. Jamie Hill said he doesn't think we have SYs anywhere in US before March 1. So we really try to get more info about any early reports of SY birds (or early reports of martins, period). Thanks to everyone for reporting arrivals on the scout pages. The scout arrival project is perhaps PMCA's longest running research project, and also one we all enjoy seeing results of each year.

Louise

[Scully]

..and _I_ don't want to muddy the waters any more than I may have done

A photo would indeed be most helpful if possible. Always ready for an excuse for a trip to the coast ....the earliest my wife and I could get could get there to take a look if that were a possibility would be next Sunday.

Mike

[Guest]

It was so windy this a.m. (32 mph, out of the south with gusts to 35-37)the brood didn't stay long or swoop in....making it difficult to get a good look or photo....I'll keep watching and trying! After looking at the photos, the little tyke looks like an SY female, but, I will need a closer look at the tail feathers to confirm....

Sue
City by the Sea, TX

[John Barrow]

Hi Sue,
I would bet you are looking at an adult ASY female. Their coats are relatively new and they have a mottled brown design up and down their chest. Also dark covert feathers (the ones near the bottom of their tail see from the inside will show alot of beige/brown. These older birds can fight along with the best of them. We are seeing a deluge of female arrivals this season. I'm just back from Port O'Connor. Had 16 birds at my site-9 or 10 of them female. Onlly two other colonies have gotten martins and they are also heavy with females. They, like the males will pick a gourd and fight for it. I suspect that is what you are seeing when you say she is being harassed.

I agree with Louise, if the bird isn't giving a male call with the raspy chortle at the end it is probably a female. Also these older females arriving now are very dark in appearance compared to the younger birds that will arrive soon.

My best to you and Gary. jb

[Guest]

Sue, as Scully said try and get a photo. last year in Feb I am about 99% sure I saw a subbie, I looked at all the photos on the web to compare, I found it was the same, alas since it was only my second year, so I didn't want to say it was definatley a subbie. I was told that it is was probably not a subbie, So this year you wanna beleive I have my camera ready, just incase

have a great season


Colleen

[Guest]

Sue - Have you paid specific attention to the front part of his neck? The SY male has a purple ring around his neck and it is very noticeable once you have looked for it. That's how I learned to tell the SY male from the ASY female. Try this and see if it helps. Good luck!




Lanell

If you haven't already, scroll down to martin biology and you can get the pictures there. You will see the difference.

[Guest]

John, I think you may be right. I watched all morning and the "mystery bird" stayed behind about 1/2 hr after all left sitting in a compartment by herself. I was able to get a long look at her head before she flew off. She did not have a dark ring under her head but an interesting dark "T" pattern starting at the eye and extending on top of the head. However, when she finally flew I had a quick glimpse of her underside and saw a large flash of white. I'll keep looking....perhaps I'll get a better look at her underside to confirm tomorrow.

An event also happened. An 8th martin flew in which I am suspecting to be a very old or injured male. He sat on a perch for about an hour, feathers looked ruffled and bad, his mouth and left eye looked scared, and much to my distress. I saw some very small droplets of blood on his right claw. Later though he preened and flew off.

Sue
City by the Sea, TX

[Laverne]

Hi Everybody.

Now, this is the kind of stuff I love to see. Do y'all realize how educated you have all become over the past couple of years?... and the technology we have available to us now permits us to "prove" once and for all that our suspicions are either correct or not.

I think this is wonderful...

Get us a picture, Sue. I'm gonna have to get a better camera...