rethinking "120 feet max" rule

[John Miller]

For some time I've had doubts about the "120 foot max" recommendation for housing placement -- at least in urban and maybe suburban settings.

Wondering what others think, as two heads or two or three hundred are better than one.

Last season in a large urban park in St. Louis, we placed houses about 200 feet out from buildings in very open sites. I wanted to get out in the open as much as possible and so broke the "120 feet" rule. It worked, we got martins and I was pleasantly surprised to have no sparrows.

I'm not recommending putting housing out in back pastures, but I'm thinking that the recommendation regarding "120 feet" needs some clarification. Of course if one were putting a setup in their yard, they'd want to be able to see the birds without binoculars - ha.

Any thoughts?

John Miller

[John Atteberry]

Hello John,
You know you got me thinking the other day about that 120 feet or more because up in Elsberry, Mo. I seen lots of martin houses on farms, wood and aluminum, that were loaded with martins, sparrows, and starlings all nesting together about 150-300 feet away from the house out in the fields. They were by different farm aminals! So, yes I think they can nest further away then the normal! Thanks John!

[RC Moser]

Actually, I like them close enough to pick off the starlings an sparrows. My rule is 35 feet. I get plenty of martins and trees are within 40 feet. The only problem I see with this is Hawks and merlins can sneak up close and probably increase their odds of picking a martin off the house.

I have also seen hawks come in low and fast from under the trees and swoop up. I suspose they use this tactic in a open area also. IMO as long as the squirrels can't jump on the houses from the trees I think it would be OK if you have lots of PM's in the area. The rule of a house over a detached garage in out IMO. I have had 4 pairs nest in a house over my workshop for 6 years now. It's about 12' above the workshop. But, I wouldn't call it ideal though! IMO the too far rule is for Protection more than anything.

[Guest]

John,

At a nearby golf course, there is a flourishing martin colony that is much further than 120 ft. from human housing. The closest structure is a maintenance building that is about 500 feet away, and it is hidden by a row of tall bushes. However, the martin housing is between the tees for the 8th and 9th holes, and the golfers provide human activity within about 120 ft.

Tony

[Al Denton]

John, I know of sites way outside the 120 max. One in particular is out by a private stock pond a good mile from anything. The only structure there is a small boat shed. I don't think it's a good idea to have one that far away. Al

[John Miller]

Thanks folks.

Based on our shared observations, I really think as open as most folks can make a site and still enjoy and manage it, is best.

On to spring!

John Miller

[starling shooter]

I think all the "rules of thumbs" have exceptions but to have the best chance of attracting them the more "rules of thumb" you can follow, the better the odds.

I agree with a poster above, I try and place them close to a window (or other sniper nest), so that the the S&S that aren't trapped aren't long for this world.

There are so many better management tools available now (dawn song, SREH, bigger compartments, predator guards) that the odds are really in your favor if you are in area with good PM pops.

[TreeGreenwood]

Based on our shared observations, I really think as open as most folks can make a site and still enjoy and manage it, is best.

I agree, John. I failed to attract a nesting pair in 2004 with the house about 65' away from buildings with no obstructions to flyways. Based on forum advice, I moved the house to the most open spot I had in 2005 even though that spot is 200' from the nearest building. I hosted 5 pair 2005 and hope to double that in 2006.

Tree