OUT OF NEST ON THE GROUND (all FOUR) I NEED SOME HELP

[Guest]

OK - I am a senior NOVICE purple martin person. I have one pair and the baby's are about a week from probably being ready to leave the nest.
My wife discovered all FOUR on he ground below the nest last evening. I was gone so the neighbor was called to help. two were caught and placed back in the nest - one flew in the pond and GOOD NEIGHBOR went to his chest and retrieved that one. - Other flew under some shrub and they could not find!!!!!!

This morning one is on the ground sop and wet from the dew. I caught that one and placed in back in the gourd. Then I went on hands and knee's in the underbrush by the pong and after an hour found the last LOST little one. put them in the gourd and raised back up to proper level. Parents were around all the time raiseing the CANE...

Ok - now noticedthat they are flying around the gourd but are not making any attemp to feed the little one's. They will fly up to the gourd and land on the porch of the gourd but not feed. chirp a lot and fly off. it's like they are trying to get the babies to get out. but they can't do anyting but flutter yet. CAN ANYONE HELP THIS OLD MAN??????[/b]

[Dale Davis]

Hi John, If these little ones are jumping already you may have a mite infestation problem, blow fly or maybe simply a heat problem. If it is a heat problem you may have to try misting.

Check the nests good for mites John. If found you need to treat the nest area or replace nest or both.

Dale

[Guest]

Hi John, If these little ones are jumping already you may have a mite infestation problem, blow fly or maybe simply a heat problem. If it is a heat problem you may have to try misting.

Check the nests good for mites John. If found you need to treat the nest area or replace nest or both.

Dale

Dale - Thanks for the come back. The last couple of days it appears that the adults have stopped feeding them. flying around the landing on the next gourd chirping and carrying one. very seldom do I see the adult land on the porch for a brief instant. I will check the nest, however it appears that they are trying to get them out.
I had the unfortunute deal where a pair of sparrows had taken up one gourd on the same pole, wife was afraid to remove the sparrows for fear of losing the martins. Well the little sparrows left the gourd yesterday, maybe of those starting to fly spurred the little martins to try there wings.
I will continue to watch, you don't think that by touching the little martins the adults will stop feeding do you??? I will check the nest SHOULD I REPLACE THE BEDDING WITH FRESH CEDAR CHIPS???

John

[Dale Hrncirik]

John,

As Dale stated, check your nest for parasites. However, it will be difficult if not impossible to see mites in the nest. Look for them crawling on the gourd surface...interior and exterior. They are very easy to see crawling on a white surface. If they are present, remove all the nest material, sprinkle 1/4 teaspoon of 5% sevin powder on the bottom of the gourd and add new nest material on top. If the babies are covered with mites, they will get on you when you handle them so always check yourself for mites after handling nestlings. If your problem is mites which I highly suspect, it would be wise in the future to take care of the problem before it gets bad enough to cause the youngsters to jump early. Good luck,

Dale

[Guest]

John,

As Dale stated, check your nest for parasites. However, it will be difficult if not impossible to see mites in the nest. Look for them crawling on the gourd surface...interior and exterior. They are very easy to see crawling on a white surface. If they are present, remove all the nest material, sprinkle 1/4 teaspoon of 5% sevin powder on the bottom of the gourd and add new nest material on top. If the babies are covered with mites, they will get on you when you handle them so always check yourself for mites after handling nestlings. If your problem is mites which I highly suspect, it would be wise in the future to take care of the problem before it gets bad enough to cause the youngsters to jump early. Good luck,

Dale

THANK YOU - I WILL BE CHECKING RIGHT NOW... HAVE A GOOD SATURDAY. I WILL E MAIL WITH RESULTS. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR ASSISTANCE.

LATER JOHN

[Dale Davis]

Hi John, Touching or handling your martins will not cause the parent birds to reject the babies. They are very tolorent of this.

John, When it comes to the sparrows be sure and keep them out of your gourds at all times. They can destroy a martin colony in very little time. Same thing with starlings.

As Dale H. said treat your nest area near the entrance with about 1/4 teaspoon of 5% seven. It should clear up any mites in about 12 hours or so.

Dale

[Guest]

John,
My babies wound up on the ground also. Yesterday and today was a real panic trying to keep up with them. Today I had to rescue the one little one 3 times.
I noticed that their Mom was "biting and pushing" them off the porch. Especially today. The adults had also stopped feeding mine too.
My last little one finally gained enough height and distance to get to some trees.
I am also a "newbie" at this Martin thing. What would happen if I had 5 nests instead of only one? I need to be 10 years younger.

[Guest]

John,
My babies wound up on the ground also. Yesterday and today was a real panic trying to keep up with them. Today I had to rescue the one little one 3 times.
I noticed that their Mom was "biting and pushing" them off the porch. Especially today. The adults had also stopped feeding mine too.
My last little one finally gained enough height and distance to get to some trees.
I am also a "newbie" at this Martin thing. What would happen if I had 5 nests instead of only one? I need to be 10 years younger.

Hi Ms. Anny - Your right, I think I aged another 10 years since yesterday, hopefully I will have things under control by this evening. I fear stray cats!!!!!!

However I have donated every stray cat to the shelter, raising Martins is a FULL TIME JOB, if you care!!!!! And a whole heck of a lot to learn..

Thank you for your responce. Later John H. (Stuck in Kansas)

[Laverne]

quote="AnnW"]John,
My babies wound up on the ground also. Yesterday and today was a real panic trying to keep up with them. Today I had to rescue the one little one 3 times.
I noticed that their Mom was "biting and pushing" them off the porch. Especially today. The adults had also stopped feeding mine too.
My last little one finally gained enough height and distance to get to some trees.
I am also a "newbie" at this Martin thing. What would happen if I had 5 nests instead of only one? I need to be 10 years younger.[/quote]

Dear Ann and John.

I am so happy you have each attracted a nesting pair of martins who have produced and raised young to "near" fledging. What you describe is not "normal" for PM young. The nestlings will stay in the nest until they are truly ready to fly and they leave the nest with the parent birds coaxing them not biting and attacking.

Ann - I don't believe this attacking bird is the babies mother. I think it is a bachelor SY male and he is misbehaving badly. Apparently these babies have no parent defending them against the aggression of other PMs. Have you checked your nests for mites? Please don't keep putting little jumpers back into a nest that they cannot tolerate. This is where being a landlord comes in to play. I consider it my responsibility to provide my colony with adequate housing and help them raise their young to fledging age. I have learned this means dealing with mites - especially later in the season. If you don't have a nest full of mites, then you must have a dead mother bird and these little babies are dying of starvation. If you don't want to lose every one of them, you should collect them - put them in a small box and take an honest evaluation of the situation. If the nest has mites - change out the old nest material with fresh and (if you have some) put 1/4 teaspoon of 5% Sevin under the nest. This will take care of the mite problem. This evening from 7:00 pm until dark... I would sit and watch nothing but the PM housing and see if the parents are caring for the babies. If you don't see the parents during the evening hours feeding and caring for their young - then, tomorrow I would take the babies to a rehabber.

These scenarios each of you describe are not the norm for Purple Martins - even SYs. Please try to find out what is truly happening with your babies. They are leaving the safety of their nest because it has become unbearable or they are starving or they are being attacked because their parents are gone or all of the above. But, to leave them on the ground, or to keep putting them back in the nest is going to only lead to their death. They are fighting for their little lives - please help them survive.

[linsue]

Laverne's advice is excellent--she, Louise, & Steve saved my sanity and 3 PM babies last week. I would just like to add that a fall-out box worked for me. I didn't have time to make a wooden box, so I used a cardboard box, made a large porch, and tied it on the dock rail below the gourd rack. Looking back, the babies were ready to leave but just didn't quite make it to the trees and landed in the water. The parents started feeding them in the fall-out box within an hour. Good luck and hope you can save the babies.

[Guest]

quote="AnnW"]John,
My babies wound up on the ground also. Yesterday and today was a real panic trying to keep up with them. Today I had to rescue the one little one 3 times.
I noticed that their Mom was "biting and pushing" them off the porch. Especially today. The adults had also stopped feeding mine too.
My last little one finally gained enough height and distance to get to some trees.
I am also a "newbie" at this Martin thing. What would happen if I had 5 nests instead of only one? I need to be 10 years younger.

Dear Ann and John.

I am so happy you have each attracted a nesting pair of martins who have produced and raised young to "near" fledging. What you describe is not "normal" for PM young. The nestlings will stay in the nest until they are truly ready to fly and they leave the nest with the parent birds coaxing them not biting and attacking.

Ann - I don't believe this attacking bird is the babies mother. I think it is a bachelor SY male and he is misbehaving badly. Apparently these babies have no parent defending them against the aggression of other PMs. Have you checked your nests for mites? Please don't keep putting little jumpers back into a nest that they cannot tolerate. This is where being a landlord comes in to play. I consider it my responsibility to provide my colony with adequate housing and help them raise their young to fledging age. I have learned this means dealing with mites - especially later in the season. If you don't have a nest full of mites, then you must have a dead mother bird and these little babies are dying of starvation. If you don't want to lose every one of them, you should collect them - put them in a small box and take an honest evaluation of the situation. If the nest has mites - change out the old nest material with fresh and (if you have some) put 1/4 teaspoon of 5% Sevin under the nest. This will take care of the mite problem. This evening from 7:00 pm until dark... I would sit and watch nothing but the PM housing and see if the parents are caring for the babies. If you don't see the parents during the evening hours feeding and caring for their young - then, tomorrow I would take the babies to a rehabber.

These scenarios each of you describe are not the norm for Purple Martins - even SYs. Please try to find out what is truly happening with your babies. They are leaving the safety of their nest because it has become unbearable or they are starving or they are being attacked because their parents are gone or all of the above. But, to leave them on the ground, or to keep putting them back in the nest is going to only lead to their death. They are fighting for their little lives - please help them survive.[/quote]


I FOUND THE FOUR ON THE GROUND, MOTHER AND FATHER NOT AROUNXD, I KNOW THEY HAVEN'T ATE ALL DAY LONG. MY WIFE IS ON THE WAY TO GET MEAL WORMS, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW YOU GO ABOUT FEEDING THEM. HELP JOHN

[Guest]

quote="AnnW"]John,
My babies wound up on the ground also. Yesterday and today was a real panic trying to keep up with them. Today I had to rescue the one little one 3 times.
I noticed that their Mom was "biting and pushing" them off the porch. Especially today. The adults had also stopped feeding mine too.
My last little one finally gained enough height and distance to get to some trees.
I am also a "newbie" at this Martin thing. What would happen if I had 5 nests instead of only one? I need to be 10 years younger.

Dear Ann and John.

I am so happy you have each attracted a nesting pair of martins who have produced and raised young to "near" fledging. What you describe is not "normal" for PM young. The nestlings will stay in the nest until they are truly ready to fly and they leave the nest with the parent birds coaxing them not biting and attacking.

Ann - I don't believe this attacking bird is the babies mother. I think it is a bachelor SY male and he is misbehaving badly. Apparently these babies have no parent defending them against the aggression of other PMs. Have you checked your nests for mites? Please don't keep putting little jumpers back into a nest that they cannot tolerate. This is where being a landlord comes in to play. I consider it my responsibility to provide my colony with adequate housing and help them raise their young to fledging age. I have learned this means dealing with mites - especially later in the season. If you don't have a nest full of mites, then you must have a dead mother bird and these little babies are dying of starvation. If you don't want to lose every one of them, you should collect them - put them in a small box and take an honest evaluation of the situation. If the nest has mites - change out the old nest material with fresh and (if you have some) put 1/4 teaspoon of 5% Sevin under the nest. This will take care of the mite problem. This evening from 7:00 pm until dark... I would sit and watch nothing but the PM housing and see if the parents are caring for the babies. If you don't see the parents during the evening hours feeding and caring for their young - then, tomorrow I would take the babies to a rehabber.

These scenarios each of you describe are not the norm for Purple Martins - even SYs. Please try to find out what is truly happening with your babies. They are leaving the safety of their nest because it has become unbearable or they are starving or they are being attacked because their parents are gone or all of the above. But, to leave them on the ground, or to keep putting them back in the nest is going to only lead to their death. They are fighting for their little lives - please help them survive.

I FOUND THE Two ON THE GROUND, MOTHER AND FATHER NOT AROUND, I KNOW THEY HAVEN'T ATE ALL DAY LONG. MY WIFE IS ON THE WAY TO GET MEAL WORMS, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW YOU GO ABOUT FEEDING THEM. HELP JOHN[/quote]


NEED SOME EXPERT HELP --- FEEDING THE BABIES MEAL WORMS. THEY APPEAR TO BE ABOUT A WEEK FROM FLYING. I seen one adult and only one flying around chirping and that led me to the babies. Howe er that Martin did not make any attempt to feed the babies. Any help would be appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Laverne]

Hello John.

Just this week, Mary Wilson in Canada, feeding a nestling in need, discovered that you can get them to "gape" (open wide) by whistling at them. Give that a try. They will continue to gape each time you whistle until they are satisfied.

Rule of thumb on feeding nestlings - they will be ready to eat again in about 45 minutes. So maybe you should try to feed them every hour - at least for a while. The night time is for sleeping - their parents don't feed them during the darkness hours - so, you shouldn't either.

Are you keeping them together in a small box - something about the same size as their nest cavity should be adequate. Keep this box (with holes for air ventilation) in a quiet, dark place - such as a closet. I use a pillow case rather than a towel to line the box because their toenails get stuck in the terry cloth. I have since learned that pine needles or grass clippings make an excellent lining for their temporary nest.

Let us know what happens. I will check back in with you in the morning.

Y'all have a good night!

[Laverne]

One other thing...

I would return the young to their true nest in the morning. Their parents are a vital link in their lives. If they are still waiting around and attempting to care for these young - they need to be left with their parents as much as possible.

You may just need to do supplemental feeding - maybe twice a day - just to make sure they are getting enough to eat. They really need to stay with their parents to complete the after fledging education that is so vital for their survival (and humans just can't mimick the Purple Martin parent in this case).

Please be aware that some PM parents will not feed their young in your presence. You should sneak a peak at them through a window or some other hidden place. If you see even one bug being delivered to these young then you can be sure they are still being fed by their parents.

[Guest]

Hello John.

Just this week, Mary Wilson in Canada, feeding a nestling in need, discovered that you can get them to "gape" (open wide) by whistling at them. Give that a try. They will continue to gape each time you whistle until they are satisfied.

Rule of thumb on feeding nestlings - they will be ready to eat again in about 45 minutes. So maybe you should try to feed them every hour - at least for a while. The night time is for sleeping - their parents don't feed them during the darkness hours - so, you shouldn't either.

Are you keeping them together in a small box - something about the same size as their nest cavity should be adequate. Keep this box (with holes for air ventilation) in a quiet, dark place - such as a closet. I use a pillow case rather than a towel to line the box because their toenails get stuck in the terry cloth. I have since learned that pine needles or grass clippings make an excellent lining for their temporary nest.

Let us know what happens. I will check back in with you in the morning.

Y'all have a good night!

Laverne - Thank you for your reply. Do you feedf a whole meal worm or one mushed up. Oh have you ever tried to whistle with false teeth????

I need all the help I can get to get these babies through this deal.

hope you have an answer by morning.

Later John - OH hope you don't mind I added that humor.....

[Laverne]

John, Purple Martin parents feed big bugs (like dragonflies) to their young. I have read here on the Forum that you should remove the head of the mealworm because they can grab hold of the inside of a baby birds throat and cause death.

My personal experience is with crickets. I have never fed meal worms. My thinking is that the cricket is a better representative, of the natural food provided by PM parents to their young, than a worm.

No, I don't mind if you add a touch of humor. But, me personally, I don't find any humor in the life/death struggle of a Purple Martin nestling.

Now, that whistling problem... I was completely unaware that false teeth prevented a whistle... Is there anybody around there who can whistle - how 'bout a grandkid? Maybe you could get one of those little plastic whistles (I don't know if that would work) but, I would try it!

I read your profile, in my attempt to assist you. Why don't you just put up a couple of artificial nests for barn swallows and attract them to your place, too? You don't have to have a barn - they will nest on a covered porch or you can build them a free standing structure. There are websites for barnies - check it out. They are wonderful little birds!

[Laverne]

I was just reading back through your posts above and found this:

NEED SOME EXPERT HELP --- FEEDING THE BABIES MEAL WORMS. THEY APPEAR TO BE ABOUT A WEEK FROM FLYING. I seen one adult and only one flying around chirping and that led me to the babies. Howe er that Martin did not make any attempt to feed the babies. Any help would be appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please be aware that Purple Martin parents do not go to the ground to feed their young. The ground is a dangerous, inhospitable place, totally against their nature as aerial nomads, and they will not care for a baby that has ended up on the ground. #1 Reason for keeping the PM young inside their nest cavity. My colony fledged 150 Purple Martin young this season (so far) and in the five months since they first arrived, I have had 4 or 5 babies on the ground. #1 cause of premature fledging is mites. #2 would probably be the death of one or both parents. #1 you can fix and return the babies to their natural place. #2 you can't fix and the young should be taken to a rehabber (unless you honestly think you can raise them). They truly need the education only their parents can provide. They are best put back in the nest for a natural life!

I have things to do, I will not be available for the rest of the day. There are others here who can help you if you need it. Good luck!

[Mary Wilson-SW Ont]

John, Laverne has given you excellent suggestions. But, do you have these babies in a container of some kind? Did you keep them overnight and get some mealworms into them last night? If anyone has nestlings down, I would try two things before attempting force-feeding, and/or before replacing in the nest ...... first, try whistling - any kind of whistle will do - but with the older birds it may not evoke the same gaping response as it seems to with younger birds. But, with birds of this age (you say they are a week away from fledging), you might get better results to gently lift one out at a time, whistle to it, and see if it will gape for you - either as a response to your whistle or as a fight reaction ... a good sign if they're still feisty enough for that. But be ready with bugs in hand because you'll want to shove a few down each throat if they open up. If that does not work, then I would put some crickets / mealworms (a few live crickets would be great if you can get to a pet store to get some) in the bottom of a deep container like a bucket. Cover it with a towel, and leave them alone for about a half hour. With luck, they may feed themselves, especially if some of those bugs are moving. (I did this successfully several years ago with a nestling which ate all of the bugs (dead) that I had left in the container with it. Force feeding is a last resort, in my opinion, as it is very intrusive and difficult, and best done by a rehabber.

[Laverne]

Hello John.

Just wanted to check on you and see how those babies are doing?

What happened...???

[Guest]

Hello John.

Just wanted to check on you and see how those babies are doing?

What happened...???

H i Lavern - Lady at rehab has them and all four are doing fine.

I TRUELY THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND HELP. YOU CAN BET I WILL BE A MORE EDUCATED PURPLE MARTIN PERSON, NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS AGAIN John H