Follow up to my “super mites” post.. not good

[Martintown33]

Hi all.. About 3 weeks ago I posted on here about a mite infestation that I could not kill.. the infestation was in 4 particular gourds.. as I stated previously I re dusted all the nests with old sevin ( carbaryl), new sevin (bifenthrin) and poultry dust (permethrin).. I wiped the walls of the gourds down with liquid sevin every 2 to 3 days to kill any mites I saw crawling around.. this has been going on for over 3 weeks.. 3 of the gourds have fledged and the mites are gone in those gourds now.. I still have one of the originally infested gourds with 26 day old birds inside that I checked today.. I had wiped the mites on this one 3 days ago, because after 3 weeks of constant treatment it still has mites .. I opened it up today and there were plenty of mites on the outside and inside walls.... again I sprayed the outside of the gourd with liquid sevin, and wiped down the interior walls.. the nest is well dusted with the 3 insecticides I mentioned.. the nests are dry and the gourds are very well ventilated..I am at my wits end as to why these mites cannot be stopped..none of the other gourds or house compartments have mites.. just these particular ones.. thank God.. the only thing I can think of is that preening martins on the perch rods above the gourds are dropping mites below and replenishing the mites daily.. but then why wouldn’t they be in the other gourds and houses below..
I was half joking when I named my original post “ super mites” .. but I’m not anymore.. in the past, whenever I’ve seen mites, just one redusting and the mites are gone.. but nothing , and I mean nothing can stop these mites.. does anybody have a clue as to what could possibly be happening? At this point, I certainly don’t … is it a super strain of mites? Man I hope not!
Rob

[Bird Brain]

Last weekend I had mites in 2 or 3 of my gourds/chirpy nests. I decided to go "scorched earth" on the mites after reading your earlier post. I dusted all 24 units so as to treat the entire colony. I assumed the entire colony had mites so I dusted every unit whether I saw mites or not. I even dusted the unoccupied units, since they enter them occasionally anyway. I put a 1/2 teaspoon of the new sevin just inside the entrance. Lowered the rack the next day and still saw a few mites remaining. So I added another 1/2 teaspoon to each unit. Mites are gone now. I realized later that when the martins lower their body to enter the conley 2 entrance, their belly is sliding against the sevin powder each time and spreading it around as well as getting in on themselves. I've noticed they aren't scratching very much anymore either. Sorry to hear your colony's mites are so resilient. I hope all ends well.

[C.C.Martins]

Rob,
This year because iv only one precious bottle of the old sevin, iv used it sparingly. For me that means use a turkey baster, under the nest material or under the inner porch if chicks are present. One quarter teaspoon or more each time.

Just about out of sevin now, found mites so used the goldstar poultry dust. Iv dusted the entrances just like bird brain. And by dusting, its a good puff of the stuff. About a quarter teaspoon or more each time. Right in the tunnels or on the porch.

[Martintown33]

Tom. I’ve put enough Sevin and poultry dust in this one particular infested gourd to kill an elephant! Still mites, mites and mites.Birdiegirl, I suggest re checking for mites again, 3 to 4 days after your last dusting. Thats what happens to me. If I keep treating and dusting them, then the next day or 2, I don’t see many mites. But if i wait 3 days after treating to check, then there are mites every where again. If I wait 4 days then there are even a greater amount of mites, etc.. That’s what’s been happening here for 26 days now.
The one thing I haven’t done is dusted the entrances like birdie girl said. I will try that. But, I don’t recall so many of us getting mite infestations in treated nests. I know I haven’t.
.. with that said, after all the treatments I’ve done, I really have no idea how’s it’s even possible there are still mites in there .. I’m really starting to think there is a new strain of mites that are totally resistant to pesticides. I spray liquid Sevin on them on the outside of the gourd and they swim and play in it.. I sh*t you not!
Rob

[Martintown33]

I just checked the mite gourd that I dusted yesterday and have been redusting for almost 4 weeks now. It still has mites. I dusted the porch and tunnel, and top of the front of the nest this time, as birdiegiirl suggested. .. but to me, this month long real life experiment is proof that the new insecticides have almost no long term (more than 2 to 3 days) effect on bird mites. I hope I’m wrong but we could be in for a “sheet” load of trouble without carbaryl.
Rob

[Thomas Maddox]

May be just lots of eggs at different stages. The pesticides only kill hatched mites and not the eggs. Don't give up yet!

[Martintown33]

Hi Thomas. The mite egg laying cycle is 7 days. I should have broken that cycle at least 4 times. Carbaryl was like dynamite to these mites, all the new stuff is barely a tiny spark to them.
Rob

[Thomabear]

Tom, I agree and noticed the exact same thing with the new replacement insecticides not being effective. Not being someone to rely on chance I purchased 2 cans of the 5% Carbaryl at the end of the banning. I broke it down and vacuum packed it in several smaller thick mil bags to hopefully keep it fresh. I keep it indoors and away from light. Should last quite a while but hopefully something else that works will come along soon. I suppose I will do some avian research and experiment with alternatives. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Martintown33]

Agree Thomabear. Very smart move on your part. I have definitely found out that All of the new pesticides are USELESS against bird mites. They might kill other insects but have little effect on bird mites. At one point, I literally redusted this nest, 9 days in a row and it still had mites. If I had known that the new insecticides are this ineffective against bird mites, I certainly would have done the same as you. I wonder if it’s possible the mites were gradually building a resistance to carbaryl, and now that we have to use something much weaker, it just doesn’t have much of an effect on them. This loss of carbaryl could become a nightmare for all Martin land lords.
Rob

[brent]

Why was carbaryl discontinued? I have a whole bottle of it but it’s about 3 years old and worked this season. I don’t have a vacuum packing machine. Do you think freezing it would preserve it? Just opened it last year and have another bottle that is older. Both are in my shed in a ziplock bag. Season is over for me. Last fledged Friday but might have late nesters. Keeping an eye out on them. Brent

[Martintown33]

Hi Brent. EPA wants carbaryl fazed out. “Environmental concerns”.. yeah right..
.. I don’t know if freezing is the way to go. Put the container in a big ziplock bag, press the air out, put in a couple of moisture absorbers that come in medicine bottles. Seal tight and keep in a dry , cool dark place, inside.. not in garage. My old Sevin dust is 4 years old. Definitely pass expiration. Not good.
Rob

[Thomas Maddox]

Crap! These birds rarely touch Earth. Weird how they can be so susceptible to these damn mites! Not holding my breath on a new chemical as, unfortunately, I don't believe the $ is there and current products seem to work (enough) for the chicken markets.

[Martintown33]

Agree Thomas. Purple Martin landlords aren’t a big enough market for anything new to come from research. Unfortunately, I’m beginning to think the loss of carbaryl is going to be a mite nightmare for us. And our martins. New Sevin and poultry dust do nothing to these mites. It seems like it can’t just be a coincidence that so many of us are having mite infestations this year, as all of our old carbaryl dust is either expiring or running out.
Rob

[flyin-lowe]

If it were me I would do some research on the Bifenthrin and see what the percentage is in your Seven. Years ago I was researching home pest control and found this is one of the most common pesticides due to it's safety for humans, pets, etc. It is one of the few chemicals that companies can use inside food establishments, stores, restaurants, etc. At the time I looked and the Ortho home defense Max was like less then .02% (or something like that) and you can buy Bifenthrin at local farm stores and it's around 7%. I would not be hesitant so lower my housing and spray the bottom 2/3's of the gourd on the outside. It will stay effective the rest of the season and shouldn't have any issues with the martins contacting it if you spray only the lower half. I know when I was researching it, it was also pet safe, which again is why it is one of the most common used chemicals in that industry.

[Martintown33]

Agree flyin lowe. Bifenthrin is safer to humans and pets than carbaryl. But it is absolutely useless against mites. I’m not putting carbaryl on my dog so it doesn’t matter if it’s pet safe or not. But it’s the only thing that kills mites. Bifenthrin might be safe in my house, but I need something to kill mites in my Martin compartments. Bifenthrin does not. I’ve sprayed the outside of my infested gourds with liquid bifenthrin and dusted the insides with it, almost everyday for almost a month. The mites laugh at it. The directions say it stays effective for quite a while. I can tell you from personal hands on experience, it does not. I can spray the outside of the gourd and lower the next day and mites are crawling all over it. I spray again, next day, mites all over it.. over and over for 30 days and no results. And if it rains, forget it. This is just another perfect example of the whacko left EPA overstepping its bounds, making stupid decisions that make life worse for everybody. Now my martins have to suffer because of idiot people making idiot decisions, like banning carbaryl, without an adequate replacement available.
Rob

[Thomabear]

Rob, I've been researching Tempo Dust and have all but convinced myself to give it a try just to see how it works. It's a highly rated product and the ingredient Cyfluthrin appears to be very low in toxicity for birds, even when eaten. Per the website "Cyfluthrin is practically non-toxic to slightly toxic when eaten by birds, including ducks, quail, and hens.2,6,23 It is moderately toxic to canaries." I've always had great results with Bayer products. Unfortunately, it's a little expensive but it should last a while. That is if it works... I would likely try it in one nest with a camera monitoring the effect it any on the birds and mites. That way I can always re-nest if necessary.

[Martintown33]

Hi Thomabear. I too have read about cyfluthrin.. all these new pesticides claim they are much safer than carbaryl. I’m sure that’s the case. But they are also safe for MITES… that’s the problem. None of these new products seem to have any mite knockdown power, like carbaryl. I’ve tried liquid and dust permethrin, and liquid and dust Bifenthrin. They have little to no effect on mites. If you spray it directly on them it kills them, but as soon as it dries in 45 seconds, it is useless…mites are crawling all over it. It has no residual killing power as it claims to have. The new dust doesn’t seem to do much of anything at all. I haven’t tried cyfluthrin. Please let me know what you find out about it. EPA has really screwed us with its banning of carbaryl.
PS… I just did another check and retreatment on the infested gourd I’ve been treating continuously for over 30 days, and have treated again the last 3 days in a row. .. incredibly it’s still full of mites. The martins in there are 29 days old and Thank God they are starting to fledge. Only 2 left in there now. I truly believe the mites may have been developing a resistance to carbaryl and now these new weaker pesticides are a joke to them. I have seen, over and over with my own eyes, not a camera, by lowering the racks, almost everyday, and observeing for myself, and absolutely believe, that these new pesticides do NOT WORK. Unless we lower and do treatments , every single day like I have, these mites would be totally out of control. I hate to say it , but from what I’ve seen up close and personal, being covered up to my elbow in mites for a month, we are in deep deep deep “sheet” without carbaryl , going forward. I only have 3 nests left to fledge and one late nester. I will hate to see the martins go, but I can’t wait to not have to deal with these mites everyday. Man, it’s been tough.
Rob

[flyin-lowe]

What strength Bifenthrin formula are you using?

[Bird Brain]

Has anyone tried to order the old sevin with carbaryl from another country? I've been getting my dog meds from Australia for over 15 years. Maybe the old sevin is still legal in some other country. Try a farm and ranch online store in another country. Might be worth a try. The new sevin with bifenthrin works fine for me but I have to use an entire tablespoon. It's 1% bifenthrin. It was 5% carbaryl, I think. So seems logical you would have to use more.

[Thomabear]

The Tempo dust has 10x the active ingredient as the new seven dust with bifenthrin and is listed for harder to control pests.