scout reporting question

[defed]

an ASY male has just arrived. i am near buffalo ny and i think it's a bit late for my guys to be returning. i had 2 pair last yr, 1 pair the yr before. neither of that 1st pair returned and i think none of the 4 birds i had last year are returning....but i had a bunch of single males. now that one is here, that i don't think was one of my nesting pair, is that considered a 'scout' to report?

i had some gourds open in early april in case they did return, then i had to close them when TS and chickadees tried to nest (and still no returning PMs). luckily i had not left for work yet when i heard him, i ran out to open some gourds. he didn't seem to be too deterred by me, so he could have been one of the singles from last yr.

[SSMartin]

Yes you can report it.

If you aren’t playing any dawnsong or attraction aids it is very likely a bird from last year.

[C.C.Martins]

Congrats!!!!!!

[defed]

Yes you can report it.

If you aren’t playing any dawnsong or attraction aids it is very likely a bird from last year.

well that's sort of my question, i don't know if it's really a 'scout' though, he seems to be in between the scout time and the SY time (which would seem to support the idea of a single male from last yr). there are scout reports w/in 5 miles of me, so i suppose it could be one from there looking around. had it been by the middle of april, i would report it regardless if he was staying here since i would consider that an early (scout) arrival.

[defed]

Congrats!!!!!!

i'm not counting my martins before they spend the night! after trying for near 30 yrs and getting my 1st pair 2 yrs ago, i thought i was going to be on easy street...but they didn't make it back. then this yr, appears to be the same situation. i know they say you need about 6 pairs to ensure that some return. on one hand it's nice not having to worry about them in the early cold spring, but it's stressful not having them here and hoping they show up eventually.

[C.C.Martins]

After 30 years my friend if one flew over my property at 10 thousand feet, id count it

[defed]

After 30 years my friend if one flew over my property at 10 thousand feet, id count it

well, 30 yrs til 2 yrs ago, i've had 1 pair then 2 pairs the last 2 yrs.

[SSMartin]

Scout is just a term. There are no real scouts. Birds either return to a previous successful site or find a site while migrating northward. The scout report is to document when birds are arriving in particular areas.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[BioJoe]

Report the first martin you see and 100% identify with confidence. That's it!

Thanks for being a part of our research

[defed]

Report the first martin you see and 100% identify with confidence. That's it!

Thanks for being a part of our research

well, i agree w/ that in part, but i don't think it would be helpful to the study to report it if the 1st one i saw was in august. i figured there would be a timeframe correlating to their typical arrival times to the area. i mean, a guy down the road had a sighting 2 or 3 wks ago.

[defed]

Scout is just a term. There are no real scouts. Birds either return to a previous successful site or find a site while migrating northward. The scout report is to document when birds are arriving in particular areas.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

i agree w/ that also, but they've been 'in the area' for several wks, just not at my house. so i didn't know if it should be reported if i see the 1st one at my place a month, 2 months, 4 months later. i figure if it's not in the 'normal 1st arrival window' it doesn't really fit the study. maybe he is just a slow flyer and just finally got here. lol

[flyin-lowe]

The purpose of the scout report research is to track the migration of "the" birds, not just "your birds", so if you see a PM at you place report it. If someone sees a martin at their place but doesn't report it because it doesn't spend the night, and then doesn't have other returning martins for 3 weeks, and then reports, the data will be off.

[defed]

The purpose of the scout report research is to track the migration of "the" birds, not just "your birds", so if you see a PM at you place report it. If someone sees a martin at their place but doesn't report it because it doesn't spend the night, and then doesn't have other returning martins for 3 weeks, and then reports, the data will be off.

i agree, the purpose is to track the birds. perhaps my question would have been better phrased....how long after everyone else in an area has reported scouts should anyone else? based on other local reports, they have been in the area for 3 wks and that is long enough for me not to report my 1st sighting. if i should see an SY tomorrow, that i would report since nobody else here has.

i saw 2 flying today but only saw the ASY male land for a cpl minutes....he seems to always show up just when i have to leave for work, so i never did see what the other one was. hopefully an ASY female.

[millerjr88]

One thing to remember, when the first ASY martins (I don't call them scouts as purple martins do not send out "scouts") arrive at any given colony depends a lot on the age of the birds. The older the bird the earlier they will typically show up at the nesting site. In 2022 I had ASY martins for the first time started showing up on May 10th. In 2023 they were here on April 22nd. Now in 2024 they were here on April 15th. A friend about 3 miles from me has had an active colony for around 15 years and is up to 7 T14 houses. He routinely has a few ASY males show up the last week of March. As you can see the older the nesting site and returning martins are, the earlier they tend to arrive.

[defed]

One thing to remember, when the first ASY martins (I don't call them scouts as purple martins do not send out "scouts") arrive at any given colony depends a lot on the age of the birds. The older the bird the earlier they will typically show up at the nesting site. In 2022 I had ASY martins for the first time started showing up on May 10th. In 2023 they were here on April 22nd. Now in 2024 they were here on April 15th. A friend about 3 miles from me has had an active colony for around 15 years and is up to 7 T14 houses. He routinely has a few ASY males show up the last week of March. As you can see the older the nesting site and returning martins are, the earlier they tend to arrive.

is it that they aren't arriving as early at younger/smaller colonies or they aren't making it back at all? i'm fairly certain that neither of my 1st year's pair made it back and now neither have any of my 2nd years pairs. 3 wks after everyone else leads me to believe the one i am seeing now is one of the SYs that didn't have a mate last yr.

[millerjr88]

If the 2 pair you had last year were SY martins, then they probably aren't all back yet. As I mentioned, the first time I had returning ASY martins they started showing up May 10, and you are roughly in same zone as I am, just a little further north. If they successfully fledged young at your site last year and are still alive, they will return to the same site. Studies show that martins even from the same colony do not necessarily migrate together, and even the same age class may not show up at the same time. Another thing to note is in a small colony early in the season you can easily have more martins than you believe as they spend far more time away from the housing looking for food than they do at the housing. Just don't make any major changes to your site (such as adding additional gourds or houses) unless the martins are already there so they see the changes being made and you should be fine. You want it to look the same when they return as it did when they left the year before. Good luck with your martins!

[defed]

If the 2 pair you had last year were SY martins, then they probably aren't all back yet. As I mentioned, the first time I had returning ASY martins they started showing up May 10, and you are roughly in same zone as I am, just a little further north. If they successfully fledged young at your site last year and are still alive, they will return to the same site. Studies show that martins even from the same colony do not necessarily migrate together, and even the same age class may not show up at the same time. Another thing to note is in a small colony early in the season you can easily have more martins than you believe as they spend far more time away from the housing looking for food than they do at the housing. Just don't make any major changes to your site (such as adding additional gourds or houses) unless the martins are already there so they see the changes being made and you should be fine. You want it to look the same when they return as it did when they left the year before. Good luck with your martins!

i guess nobody knows when/if they get back unless they are banded or geo tagged. but i'm going to say that i have never had a martin return that nested successfully the previous yr, albeit i have had very small numbers (1 pair yr 1 w/ one ASY male/SY female, 2 pair yr 2 one was ASY male/SY female and SY male/unsure female). i know they come back so i am presuming that they did not survive. this ASY i have is comfortable, like he's been here before, but he acts sort of like a new guy. so i can only guess that he is a single male from last yr.

as far as the term scout, yes, they don't venture out ahead, find a location and go back and show everyone the way. i'd say a more accurate definition is those birds that nested their the previous year.

[BioJoe]

Report the first martin you see and 100% identify with confidence. That's it!

Thanks for being a part of our research

well, i agree w/ that in part, but i don't think it would be helpful to the study to report it if the 1st one i saw was in august. i figured there would be a timeframe correlating to their typical arrival times to the area. i mean, a guy down the road had a sighting 2 or 3 wks ago.

Appreciate your consideration about our research. The aspect that you're missing is that this is a multivariate study that considers other factors in addition to simply the location and how they may influence arrival timing to your particular colony. The Scout Arrival Study isn't a study of when the first martin arrives to your area, it's when the first martin arrives to your colony.

[defed]

The Scout Arrival Study isn't a study of when the first martin arrives to your area, it's when the first martin arrives to your colony.

so if the 1st ASY showed up to my site in july, you'd want that as part of the data? that doesn't seem relevant. that's all i'm trying to understand.

i will offer 1 more scenario, then i'll drop it. lol

the guy on the other side of town gets ASYs back on 4/1 (within the established window on the PMCA map). he records it to the scout survey. on 5/1, his gourd rack gets broken in half in a wind storm and he doesn't put it back up. 5/5 (in my opinion quite a bit outside the normal return time) an ASY shows up at my place. he happens to be the same one already reported, so me reporting it is not accurate....though i have no idea whether he was just late getting to my place or if he was displaced from his original home.

do some show up a month late? probably. do some get displaced from where they returned originally and then have to go somewhere else? for sure. that's why i was looking for clarification on what to report timeline wise vs what others in my area have already reported.

btw, the lone ASY is still here, and he's still solo (as far as i can tell).