Troyer Horizontals and Owl Guards ???

[Hanover Bill]

This is sort of a followup post on Tim's post of using a 45 degree angle on the THG's tunnel entrance.

I had actually been thinking about this question for a while, and Tim's post reminded me of it, the question is, are owl guards absolutely necessary on Troyer Horizontals, considering the deep cavity, and the long tunnel entrance? Can an owl still scare a Martin out of a deep gourd such as this by grabbing and shaking the porch, or will a Martin freeze and remain in the deep compartment if under attack.

Thanks;
Hanover Bill.

[Anthony Neira]

Hey H.Bill, I do know Some Martins will fly out when something disturbs their housing, and some won't . There's no real telling , depend's on the Martins disposition .

[KathyF]

Bill, Yes, if the martins would stay put, they would be safe. But they sit on the porches or they flush and they run the risk of getting caught. One of my banded martins was staying in one of the Troyer vertical gourds that was knocked around pretty good one night and the owl ate him after he flushed apparently.
I found this series of photos on one of my cards awhile back and after viewing the pics I could see that he snagged a martin off the porch of the horizontal gourd.

I put a white arrow on the owl, so you can see where he came in:

[tim414]

If the Martin's flush whenever the gourd is shaken, then what's the point of trying to add more protection?

If they flush, then their chance of surviving is greatly reduced, no matter what I do to the gourd. Adding more material for the owl to grab to shake gourd whilst his supper pops out of the gourd....??

Seems to me something that protects the entire rack from critters being able to grab gourds and flush Martins out is what the doctored should order...something like a wire cage...??

[Matt F.]

Great point Tim.
Some folks have begun to do just that.
Check out this thread (photos included) that shows some great, anti-owl cages created by forum member Davlyn:
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21912

[KathyF]

Tim,
Because the added material prevents the owl from snatching the martin off the porch as soon as he exits / flushes and gives him a head start. It's not much, but every second matters when the owl is perched above and just waiting.
And an owl can't out-fly a martin, once the martin is airborne.

You're right - that's why the cages are more effective - the owl can't shake the gourd to flush out the martin.

[Lewis]

I have a GHO visiting my site as evidenced by feathers I have found. I have 20 THG's all equipped with "No Rockers" formerly made by CUE( no longer in business). These no rockers keep the gourds from swinging. They are actually fixed in place with no movement. I think this helps to keep the adult martins from flushing and getting caught. All of the 20 THG's have Conley II entrances modified by raising the floor and placing the PMCA wing protector over the entrance on the outside (Lewis SREH). By making the sreh smaller and added thickness of the wing guard might make it more difficult for the owl to see the nestlings and to reach in.
I have 2 Safe Haven houses. They have divided entrance ways and nesting cavities which prevents the owl from seeing or reaching the nestlings. The porches on the Safe Haven are narrow with no railings.I also have 4 Night Guard lights mounted. on the AAA gourd rack.
All gourds and houses were full last season and I observed no birds roosting outside. Since I don't do nest checks after the first fledglings reach 22 days I can't say how many birds I lost. By observing the colony's behavior I don't think the owl was a regular visitor in that the adults and fledglings were returning to the site for a week or so after fledging.It is quite a sight to watch them come in at dusk and make their final approach and dive for the entrance way. They go right in and stay.

Lewis

[tim414]

I have a GHO visiting my site as evidenced by feathers I have found. I have 20 THG's all equipped with "No Rockers" formerly made by CUE( no longer in business). These no rockers keep the gourds from swinging. They are actually fixed in place with no movement. I think this helps to keep the adult martins from flushing and getting caught. All of the 20 THG's have Conley II entrances modified by raising the floor and placing the PMCA wing protector over the entrance on the outside (Lewis SREH). By making the sreh smaller and added thickness of the wing guard might make it more difficult for the owl to see the nestlings and to reach in.
I have 2 Safe Haven houses. They have divided entrance ways and nesting cavities which prevents the owl from seeing or reaching the nestlings. The porches on the Safe Haven are narrow with no railings.I also have 4 Night Guard lights mounted. on the AAA gourd rack.
All gourds and houses were full last season and I observed no birds roosting outside. Since I don't do nest checks after the first fledglings reach 22 days I can't say how many birds I lost. By observing the colony's behavior I don't think the owl was a regular visitor in that the adults and fledglings were returning to the site for a week or so after fledging.It is quite a sight to watch them come in at dusk and make their final approach and dive for the entrance way. They go right in and stay.

Lewis

Cool. I can't wait to have that happen.

What's significant at 22 days? (you mentioned that's when you stop nest checks)

Thanks for your post. The no rockers your talking about was on my mind since moving gourds flush martins. I was wondering how I was going to secure them. Glad somebody has a way....I'll take it lol....

Thanks
Tim

[Anthony Neira]

Tim, some landlords don 't do nest checks after the young are 20 + Days old so as to not have them Pre- Fledge ( leave the house too early , when they 're not ready to fly) avoiding a bird not able to fly back to the home, being stuck on the ground, prey to predators , & not able to feed themselves on the "wing". SOME feel "Better safe ....

[Louise Chambers]

There are some good methods to use when doing nest checks with older birds (22 days or older - they cannot fly yet, but can glide a bit)

http://www.purplemartin.org/forumarchiv ... eckold.htm

We suggest using the above method; it works well. If landlords stop nest checks when the first nest reaches 22 days old, the welfare of all the nests with younger birds is left to chance - nest parasites, dead nestlings, etc. It's better to continue nest checks.

[Anthony Neira]

Tim, I do the sock & string method past 20 days, It does work, but like I said some land lords feel it's too risky for them, which as Louise noted, the young can still be at risk. Just follow the instructions above & you should not have any trouble , still , no matter with all the information at hand, some people won't change & you can 't force them, Good luck, you're at the right place.
P.S If you have your set up ready, you can practice the "Sock & string" method, along with lowering the gourds SLOWLY, NOW, so you won't be nervous when you do it for real, that 's what I did way back when.

[KathyF]

I'm not sure if the 'no rockers' are something that really benefits a gourd or not. I've thought about this multiple times and just can't be really conclusive about it.
On the one hand, yes, the owl 'bumps / rocks' the gourd and can flush the martin. On the other hand, if you have a stable gourd that doesn't rock, doesn't it then provide a stable landing platform, for the owl to land on and grab the porch - as in something stable that allows him to 'work/tear' on the porches with his massive talons?

[KathyF]

P.S., At my colony, I don't call it "sock & string" method, I call it, "plug & play".

[Anthony Neira]

That's good Kathy ! Sounds more like "DAY CARE" For Martin young!

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I think that the norockers help a whole lot, even though they are not as good as a cage. For people that cannot put up a cage, I think that the norockers are nearly as good as a cage. It would be about the same as a house that does not swing.

There are other things that help, like having at least 12 inches to the back of the gourd from the entrance. Also it helps when the owls cannot see the martin sitting on her nest.

[KathyF]

Emil,
I've never seen no-rockers - can you provide some pictures, please? I can't visualize how they can be nearly as good as a cage...are they pretty big - and how far out over the gourd do they hang?

And I don't understand your comment about the house that doesn't swing. My local GHO attacked my Trendsetter house first - no sight into the nesting martins and while it certainly didn't swing like a gourd, he still flushed martins out of the house during his attack.

[Steve Kroenke]

I've studied owl predation on my various martin colonies since the mid-80s and have seen no evidence that a stationary gourd provides any more protection than a swinging one. A stationary gourd becomes like a single unit house and allows both barred and great horned owl to easily cling to any entrance and particularly a porch to scare out martins or even reach into the entrances.

A swinging gourd is UNSTABLE and in many cases and makes it a little more difficult for a huge owl to cling to any entrance or porch. I have watched huge barred and great horned owls try to swoop up to a swinging Super Gourd and fall off as there was NO porch and the swinging action of the gourd kept the owl from gripping the entrance.

I have observed barred and great horned owls easily raid stationary houses by clinging to porches/perches and grabbing martins as they fled out the holes. Houses do not swing and remain stationary, making it easy for a huge owl to cling to porches, perches and entrances.

At one of my Florida martin colonies, I had some of my natural gourds firmly attached to crossbars and the gourds did not move at all. This action made NO difference at all and barred owls easily grabbed entrances as they tried to pull martins out or snatch them when they flushed. The gourds did not move and provided a stable platform for huge owls to cling to.

However, owls can raid BOTH stationary and swinging gourds, particularly if there is a porch in front of the entrance. The porch can become a walkway of death and destruction to any martins inside a gourd or house as owls can easily hold on to porches.

The best protection is a barrier in FRONT of a gourd/house that prevents a huge owl from gaining access to any porch or entrance. And even that may not stop owls from trying and they may hang on wire cages and terrify any martins peering out entrances or on porches. If large numbers of martin fledglings are roosting on porches of a house or crossbars of a gourd racks and the housing is enclosed in a wire cage, the owl cans still SEE the martins and the owl may land on top of the cage or even cling to it to reach the martins. Most martins would flee in terror if a huge owl was hanging on a wire cage or hovering around it just inches away!

Steve

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Several times I have observed owls playing volleyball with the natural gourds, and I would try to chase them away, they were not even interested in leaving until I got under them and screaming at them. The owls even broke out the bottoms of the round holes while they were hanging on the gourd's entrance. Contrary to what is stated above, the owls have no problem holding onto the hole in a swinging gourd without an entrance.

I now use EMT tubing for arms, and use pvc in the neck of the gourds for hanging. I have holes that match, and I drop a nail into the hole to make the gourds stationary. I have not seen any owls playing volleyball with the gourds since then. I still have some owls sitting on the housing, but have not found much evidence that they are catching a lot of martins.

Thus my opinion is that the no-rockers help a lot. I do not have any, but my method of hanging incorporates the exact same idea. So I cannot mention the name of the supplier, and do not have the photos of them.

I agree that the cage is the best, but not everyone is allowed to have a cage, or want a cage that massive, it would surely generate complaints from the home owners associations.

[Anthony Neira]

I've read Forever about Owl guards of all sorts attached to the housing/hub. So money & kidding aside, would the Best, but not 100% from keeping the Martins from being flushed out , Owl Guard be a Heavy Duty wire ( as wide as openings need be to keep owls out) Small Grain Silo shape cage with a door for people to enter, be it? The Ultimate Owl Guard Cage! From the ground to Over the housing? No! REALLY? It Really makes me feel bad to read how many of you ( and sure there's many more out there !) have this Heartache EVERY Season ! Yes, I AM Lucky !!!

[tim414]

I've studied owl predation on my various martin colonies since the mid-80s and have seen no evidence that a stationary gourd provides any more protection than a swinging one. A stationary gourd becomes like a single unit house and allows both barred and great horned owl to easily cling to any entrance and particularly a porch to scare out martins or even reach into the entrances.

A swinging gourd is UNSTABLE and in many cases and makes it a little more difficult for a huge owl to cling to any entrance or porch. I have watched huge barred and great horned owls try to swoop up to a swinging Super Gourd and fall off as there was NO porch and the swinging action of the gourd kept the owl from gripping the entrance.

I have observed barred and great horned owls easily raid stationary houses by clinging to porches/perches and grabbing martins as they fled out the holes. Houses do not swing and remain stationary, making it easy for a huge owl to cling to porches, perches and entrances.

At one of my Florida martin colonies, I had some of my natural gourds firmly attached to crossbars and the gourds did not move at all. This action made NO difference at all and barred owls easily grabbed entrances as they tried to pull martins out or snatch them when they flushed. The gourds did not move and provided a stable platform for huge owls to cling to.

However, owls can raid BOTH stationary and swinging gourds, particularly if there is a porch in front of the entrance. The porch can become a walkway of death and destruction to any martins inside a gourd or house as owls can easily hold on to porches.

The best protection is a barrier in FRONT of a gourd/house that prevents a huge owl from gaining access to any porch or entrance. And even that may not stop owls from trying and they may hang on wire cages and terrify any martins peering out entrances or on porches. If large numbers of martin fledglings are roosting on porches of a house or crossbars of a gourd racks and the housing is enclosed in a wire cage, the owl cans still SEE the martins and the owl may land on top of the cage or even cling to it to reach the martins. Most martins would flee in terror if a huge owl was hanging on a wire cage or hovering around it just inches away!

Steve

I greatly appreciate your insight Steve.

Thanks for your post.
But, dang, it spells out: N o e a s y a n s w e r ....lots of laughs...

I'm going to try the no rockers I just bought a while ago. But, come to find out, there is a much less expensive way.

Tim Mangan has another way for roughly 20 cents a gourd, instead of five bucks a gourd....

Thanks again Steve,
Tim