Convince me one way or the other.........

[avesrun]

Bear with me while I play Starling and HOSP (devil's) advocate. In this my first year I've been thinking about wannabe's like myself attempting to start a martin colony. I have a T-14 with 3 THG gourds with all entrances conley II sreh. I had ASY stay for a few nights early in April apparently on their way north and I've had half dozen or so sy visitors in may and early June. The ASY martins struggled with the Conley II but figured them out except for one bird; I watched one ASY male struggle clear until dark and I never did see it go in despite trying hard trying to beat sundown. None of my sy visitors were observed trying to enter the Conley II sreh. Do sreh effect how soon a new colony gets established?

Ok; please convince me of the flaw, negative aspects, or truth in the following line of thinking:
What would be wrong or right about using round holes for a wannabe setup for the first year or two in getting a colony started. I'm thinking it could greatly INCREASE chances of attracting birds to STAY and greatly DECREASE chances of having to wait possibly multiple years for birds to commit to a new site. Please tell me I'm wrong and why. The starling/hosp devil's advocate says "go with round holes; do your best to trap and control S&S, but in the end just cut your losses for the first couple years or so and THEN switch to sreh AFTER you have had a few successful nesting pairs of Martins.

I am fairly new to the forum and realize the ongoing debate between round and sreh; however, has it been discussed in much detail as to how great or small usage of sreh influences how long it can take to get nesting martins for brand new wannabes? I've read a thread or two about how martins accustomed to round holes are able to switch over to sreh.
Finally, please feel free to reply with what type of entrances were used when you got YOUR first successful nest AND HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. I will keep a running tabulation and post results.

I thank you very much if you've stuck with me on this inquiry and also for any thoughts either way; I am a wannabe preening and gleaning for more knowledge on all things martins, and I only want to do well for the species. Thanks again!

[H Key]

My experience with same issue. This is my first year as landlord after 4 yrs. trying. Last yr. I had 1 sy male for about 4 weeks but came by almost every day. I had all round holes . and this year I started out with a T-14 with sreh and 6 gourds with round holes . The first of April there was an asy male showed and found his girl. He worked for several weeks but brought in 2, then 4, and regular until now and there are 10 active nest here. Gourds with rd holes were first to go. When 4 gourds were filled and nest making began I e-mailed two experienced people and both gave basically same advice and that was it would have been better to start with sreh but they could be changed with some stress on birds. The first gourd was the worst for me and the birds for all of them sat on rack chattering and taking turns looking at conley 2 but next morning all was fine. I changed all gourds to conley 2 and excluder 2 and the t-14 has cresent and clingers. The birds use them all with no problems. I have very few s&s to deal with and caught one starling checking both gourds and t-14 and that's when I made changes. I won't call myself a landlord until next yr. and see what comes back. I have 28 babies and 13 more eggs due to hatch over next 4 days. First fledging on 28th. So, do what makes you feel good about to get your first pair. The old saying, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck on your colony start and hope my little experience helps. Hubert

[avesrun]

Hi Hubert. Thanks for the post. So basically you went 4 years with round holes and no "takers" To me that means chalk one up for sreh; even though round holes were first to be occupied. Would you agree?

In my area I have loads Starlings and not so many hosp. I am very hesitant to add any round holes to my setup, but am curious as to whether doing so would greatly increase my chances of achieving a first pair. I'm leaning toward sticking with sreh and not giving into my selfish want of possibly speeding up nesting success.

I'd like to make a spreadsheet that gathers this data so please keep your testimoniasl coming offering your thoughts on whether you think sreh makes a big difference on getting a first nesting and/ or including:
-Type and # of entrances offered in your first nest success; round or sreh
-How many years till first nest success.
-If you would consider your site: Ideal, medium, marginal considering nearness to water, proximity to trees, within martin range, proximity to other active colonies etc.

I know there are many factors involved in how long it takes for a wannabe to become a landlord; just trying to determine if there is a general correlation on type of entrance offered, # of years for first nesting, site quality. Thanks!
Tim

[Gary W]

Hi Avesrun

I started a colony 9 years ago with all SREH's from the beginning. I would not want any housing with round holes. Starlings are fast, and lethal if they can access a Martin nest! They are born destroyers! When Martins decide to use your site, they'll readily negotiate the SREH's.

Gary

[tonyg]

Been a landlord for 16 yrs. Started with round holes and continue to use round holes. I was successful the first year i put up a house. I have wide open spaces with a large pond and several watershed lakes nearby. I live in the country and don't have much of a problem with starlings. What ones show up, usually do early and they are dealt with extreme aggression from me and a 20ga shotgun. Sparrows are a different problem. I trap them in the off season as many as I can and shoot the rest during the season. But like any other landlord, they are the toughest to control just about anywhere. So my point is, if you can control the pests, use what youre comfortable with. If not use the SREH's and help control them the best you can. Martins will adapt to either, its just a little easier for them with round holes.

[SoIndyDon]

I agree with your premise. Start with round entrances then introduce SREHs. That's what started colonies twice for me.

But I believe this is the most important point: Use the type of housing and entrances landlords successfully use around your area. I opinion that nestlings imprint on the housing that they are raised in. SY martins are looking for the housing type that they they grew up in.

In my situation, the Amish around here use gourds with round entrances. That's what I initially used to start my colonies. I had 1 pair my first year and growth every year afterwards. Now I have 32 gourds and a T-14, all with Clinger SREHs. Gourd occupancy this year is 31 pair and T-14 with 9 pair.

[avesrun]

Thank you everyone and interesting replies thus far. Believe it or not I AGAIN had sy birds flying around the t-14 and gourds this a.m. they circled the setup many times; never landed on it but would fly right up to the entrances and take a quick look and then circle/look/circle/ look and then took off. It was a bittersweet fathers' day present and I have to seriously wonder if round holes would've made a difference. I can be patient but this has happened way too often. These birds really appeared to be interested in finding a home, and I can't really think of a valid reason they avoided at least landing on the house. Again, they circled it several times and flew right up to the porches. It's mid June in Iowa; it was a pair. Very frustrating.

[DebA]

Sorry they keep teasing you!

You wanna know what I started with? Well there it is.

My husband found in a junk pile and threw it up on a fixed hole. Lovely, huh? No, it is not one of Mr. Scully's pictures. It's mine. The nest was in the bottom left and I had one pair. One of the two babies meandered it's way over to the right. Now I know better with a pole that lowers and sparrow combat. We still have that house sitting in our barn.

Second year I put up S&K house converted to six compartments with crescents. We do have starlings around our place. I watched the martins try to navigate entrance. They stuck with it and figured out within about three days.

Third year I put up a second same S&K about 30' a part. Fifth year (this year) I now have 2 Trendsetter 12's with crescents. Gourds underneath. Super with cresent and added porches and Troyer Horizontals with Conley II.

Most of my nests are in the houses. Two super gourds have babies. Nothing in THG. I wondered if it was due to different entrance holes. But today's nest check revealed three eggs in a barely built nest with lots of green leaves in a THG. Yay.

You can see my slow growth in my signature area. Sparrows have wreaked havoc on me in past. Starlings don't even land on the houses. I have been better in my sparrow contol this year. 11 nests, 35 babies, and 17 more eggs to go as of today.

Deb

[MamaBruff]

You are on the right path if you have visitors...Have you thought about switching SOME of your entrances to round and see what happens? I know that there are a lot of Amish in the Cedar Rapids/Amana area; do you have a large presence also in your neck of the woods? If so, round may be "in" if you have the patience and persistence to keep up with S&S... Just wondering "out loud"... And BTW, I feel your pain... So very frustrating to try and start a new colony, always keeping watch, patrolling... (Which never stops; it is a constant battle...second crop of fledgling S&S are driving me nutz... GRRR!) Hang tough, buddy, and keep thinking of ways that may work!! ... Hugs...

[JamesinIA]

I started my colony with all SREH and am up to 20 pairs this year. I look at it this way, unless you are able to monitor you site the majority of the day and are in an area with few starlings then round holes might be a good choice. Even if you only offer a few round holes and the starlings are able to use them, when you do get that first pair in a round hole compartment they are in much greater danger than one with a sreh. If you think it is hard seeing martins checking out your housing now without going in, imagine loosing one your first founding pair to a starling attack. To me it is not worth the risk. I know that in my part of Iowa the starling are everywhere. The first few years I would trap over 40 in the S&S Controller plus shoot several too. This year I trapped 16 and shot around 7 or 8 so far.

[Tim Mangan-Kansas]

I started my first colony at an ideal location with housing on lakefront property. I used all SREH entrances and to my knowledge, I had the only housing with this type of entrance. Being lake front property, there were literally hundreds of other martin houses, probably all with round holes, the martins could have selected. I had four pair my first year.

Although round holes might make it easier for any visitors to initially enter/exit, I don't think it is the deciding factor for visitors to select a site to eventially nest. If they like your site, they will stay and nest whether you have round or SREH entrances.

If you don't already have "other" attractants, I would suggest making your site as inviting as possible to get martins to stay and nest; pre-built nests, additional perching rods, S&S control, unobstructed flyways and egg or oyster shells available for visitors, preferably attached to your housing.

Wishing you the best to get your colony started.

Tim

[barry resvick]

Hi There!
Last year was the first time iv had nesters.Iv been using the round holes up until this year when i added excluders to all entrances.My founding ASY male and his mate showed up and he tried for two days to breach the new entrances with no luck.Although hes very attached to our site and has been coming back for three years,i didn't want to take the chance that he would give up and move on so i removed the excluder from the hole he always takes.I left the other 11 excluders intact.He is now in the final nest building stages and is very happy in his nestbox with no starling or sparrow problems.He has since attracted two other pairs that have figured out the excluders no problems.I may just leave that one spot open for him until he dies or stops returning to us.He is always the first to arrive and is kinda special to us as without his help we wouldnt have had a colony.

[DornCounty]

When I started my colony I left one hole round... The new martins picked out one of the SREH holes.

If you can watch the house, leave a couple openings round and the rest SREH.

[go4]

Why spend time trapping and shooting starlings? Martins use either enterance equally well. With sreh starling are not a problem. Don't make it easy for starlings.

[jr 2]

don't use round holes if you have plenty of starlings in your area;;starlings will take over and run the martins off;;i tryed for 10 years with round holes;;i use cresent and clinger entraces which i think are easier for the martins;;jr2

[avesrun]

Everyone's input here collectively has been greatly appreciated. So far I've come away with the following:
- I plan to stick things out for at least 1 or two more years using sreh ONLY
- If after 3 years I keep having as many visitors as I have this season, I MAY switch to offering one or two round entrances.
-I live in an area with tons of startlings; for the most part, don't mess around with round entrances!
-One of the best things I can do is to continue attractant measures; such as offering egg shells for visitors, more perches etc.

I still would look forward to additional testimonials; years to become landlord, type of entr. offered, and type of entrance used by first martin nesters.
Very interesting to read stories like Resvicks in Canada with the founding martin struggling for two days when switched over to sreh for returning season. I am very interested in hearing more thoughts on housing entrances used by Wannabes and how long it took especially if started out with sreh.
I have put most of the above posts onto a spreadsheet but will wait a little longer to attach results. Thanks again for everyone's input and ideas regarding this topic. Tim

[jedin]

Just another experience:
Late (way too late) in 2011 we put up our first house, sreh, Crescent. Had no idea what that meant or that it was too late! Had many visitors and a late nesting by a pair of tres, who were successful.
2012 we had our first nesting and successful pair of SY. Lots of visiting.
2013, as of last nest check we have 4 nests (one ASY and rest SY) with eggs/a few hatched and 2 new nests lined with leaves.

We have the Crescent holes in both houses.

In 2012 we had lots of looking before anyone stayed, and the tables seemed to turn when I rubbed mud around the porch and inside. That may have been coincidence. We have willows here and no pine needles, and I didn't yet know about cedar chips. All our martins now have rather spectacular willow nests compared to our first pair last year. Wishing everyone the best of luck trying.

[avesrun]

Bump for hopefully one last round of replies/data. I'll make it simple; please reply with:
1. Entrance type used for first successful martin nesting(sreh or round)
2. How many years it took you to become a successful landlord
3. How much of a problem S&hosp are at your site
4. Any additional comments you may want to add regarding your view(s) regarding entrance type offered and how it may/may not have any affect for NEW/Perspective landlords/Wannabes.

Thanks!
Tim

[Louise Chambers]

Two new sites established in first year, one with all sreh, one with mix, some birds used each type of entrance.

We have zero starling problems due to sreh use, house sparrows are always an issue so trapping and shooting continue as needed year round. Starlings are trapped and shot too.

I know new sites can be started with all sreh, meaning no danger of starlings killing martins. So I tend to suggest going all sreh UNLESS the landlord is around most of the time to control starlings. Especially helpful to use all sreh at public sites, which will not be monitored daily.

[KathyF]

1. Entrance type used for first successful martin nesting(sreh or round)

I started with SREH, but opened 2 round holes and got my first pair my first year trying. I would have had more pairs, however, I experienced extreme porch domination.

2. How many years it took you to become a successful landlord

Became a landlord first year.

3. How much of a problem S&hosp are at your site

HOSP are *always* a problem, but after eliminating 35 my first year, things got better for the next 5 years with only dealing with 8-12 per year. Suddenly this year however, I've had to eliminate over 50 (someone let them nest in barn nearby, I think). Starlings are no longer a problem. I bought a round holed Trendsetter and after waking up one morning and seeing a starling exiting one of the holes where I had a pair of martins, I decided to convert to all SREH. It only takes ONE starling and it only takes a minute or two to enter a cavity & kill your martins. That was it for me.... I do still trap and shoot the starlings and HOSP all year.

4. Any additional comments you may want to add regarding your view(s) regarding entrance type offered and how it may/may not have any affect for NEW/Perspective landlords/Wannabes.

If all other conditions are right - location, location, location, and you have manageable housing (raising / lowering) and predator guards, you will get martins. The most important thing is location. It helps to see what kinds of housing any successful neighbors have too. I will never again risk the lives of my martins with round holes.