When to lower house to clean Sparrow nests?

[Guest]

I have 2 Martin houses. In one of them I have 1 pair of Martins but in the other I have none. The only bird I have that I can see through my binoculars is a couple of sparrows.

At what point during the day should I lower my Martin houses to clean out the Sparrow nests that the Sparrows are making?

How often should I lower and clean them out? Will the same Sparrows return even if I get rid of their nests?

Also should I even lower the house that has the 1 pair of Martins to check for Sparrow nest or just leave them alone?

Thanks..

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

2 to 4PM is usually the best time to lower the housing, because the martins are usually feeding at that time. Most people check the housing and nests about once a week, some check more often. The martins sort of get used to you checking the house, and don't mind. You can tear out the sparrow nests as often as you wish

Yes, you can lower the house that has martins, just do it when you are positive that they are outside or completely gone from the housing. Later in the season, the female will be on the eggs, so go ahead and check them anyway, she will not leave if she has eggs in the nest.

Do NOT check the house early in the morning or right before dark, that will bother the martins a whole lot. Most of them lay their eggs in the morning so I don't like to bother them until about 2 pm

[John Miller]

As far as time of date...late afternoon is best because the martins often are away feeding. But they will tolerate you lowering the housing earlier; I'd just not do it if it's raining or cold weather.

I see no immediate need to check on the house with one pair; but as they get started with nesting you will be better able to monitor their progress and watch for any problems if you do a nest check every 5 days or weekly.

Pull the sparrow nest out every few days if you can. It would be best to trap them. Likely they will rebuild -- all season. If you can't trap them, just let it go after another month or so when you have martin eggs. Otherwise, the male sparrow will respond to the nest tearouts with aggressive behavior, perhaps breaking the martin eggs. But if you can keep the nest removed now, it will at least delay the sparrows' nesting progress and reduce the number their broods...but this is a far second best choice. Trap them out if you can.

John M

[Dan Drew]

Will the same Sparrows return even if I get rid of their nests?

They WILL !! ...and they will be in a bad mood! ... bad enough to kill martins, or destroy martin eggs.

Emil, I think you might have misread the post! The question is NOT about doing nest checks a la martin monitoring. S/he is ripping out sparrow nests. I thought this was officially "dis-recommended" a long time ago... or at least a "last choice" or something.

Hopefully someone will post a competent link regarding SPARROW'S REVENGE. Some time back, when I was struggling to get martins, I lost two families of tree swallows out of ignorance on this matter. My education on the matter centered on the cardinal rule that HOSP and Starlings must be "dispatched to bird heaven" and anything short of that is a compromise.

If shooting them is not an option for you, you might want to read the recent thread about using glue traps, and consider that as a better option than tearing out their nests.

Dan

[Guest]

Thanks for all the replys with the useful information. So would you rec. cleaning out the 2-3 sparrow nests that I have in my 2 houses or just leave them as not to get the sparrows mad??

[Dan Drew]

So would you rec. cleaning out the 2-3 sparrow nests that I have in my 2 houses or just leave them

Think about it! These are NOT your only two options!

There are lots of ideas on line about how to manage "the S&S problem." you might want to start your study by using this link as an index.
http://www.purplemartin.org/links/Links.html

In addition to the two pronged trap you thought yourself into, there are many other ideas and philosophies regarding, types of traps, types of guns, and types of euthanasia. I'd recommend you abandon your search for an easy answer and read some of the ideas on line... then decide for yourself what will work at your site.

By the way, i can't tell from your header ("CA") whether you are in Ontario California or Ontario Canada... though I doubt it will make any difference to the sparrows.

Best of luck! ~Dan Drew

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

At what point during the day should I lower my Martin houses to clean out the Sparrow nests that the Sparrows are making?

How often should I lower and clean them out? Will the same Sparrows return even if I get rid of their nests?

Also should I even lower the house that has the 1 pair of Martins to check for Sparrow nest or just leave them alone?

Thanks..

Dan, I thought that I answered most of the questions:
1st question: 2 to 4 PM
2nd question: tear out the nests as often as you wish
3rd question: yes, you can lower the house that has martins

So Dan, what is the problem? Does it bother you that I added something about nest checks? Dan, I didn't recommend that she tear them out, now did I?

[John Miller]

On your last question...if you feel you can commit to nest tear outs every few days for the next few weeks, I'd personally opt to tear the sparrow nests out. I say this based on today's date and your location in Canada. I doubt you will have martin eggs present for another month, but let's say for at least another two weeks. When the martins have eggs, the male house sparrow may break their eggs if you are still pulling out his nest. He'll be even meaner if his nest advances to eggs too, or worse -- his babies -- and you tear it out. At this stage, sparrows can, as stated, even inflict mortal wounds on adult martins.

So..the best option still is to try to trap the sparrows, perhaps with an insert trap.

If you do nothing, we honestly don't know how damaging the sparrows may be to your martins. I suspect some martin eggs will get broken. Male sparrows between their own broods go snooping in different cavities, sometimes clearing them of other bird eggs to make room for his own. And of course martins cannot use the cavities plugged by sparrow nests, and sparrows present probably attract more sparrows.

So it's a judgement call you will have to make, and I know it's not easy. But if you want your martin colony to grow, I think you should try to get rid of the sparrows.

Some landlords in the north have had good luck with breaking sparrow eggs -- after a nest tear out -- and leaving them on the bare floor. This caused the sparrows to abandon. It's not worked for me in Missouri, but you could try it as the successful experience was reported in Canada.


I hope this helps some...

John M

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

When I lived in town, I tore the nests out about 3 or 4 times a day for a few days, and the sparrows left. It even helps to just sit outside so that they are afraid to build a nest. If they cannot get to the house because you chase them away, then they left when I did that. There are so many answers as to what works sometimes.

Having said that, trapping works best for me

[Dan Drew]

Does it bother you that I added something about nest checks?

Emil, I thought your answers were fine. they did not bother me at all; and I certainly did not want to sound like I was belittling you. In fact, my chiding was based on the assumption that most readers know you as a long time poster with good credibility.

Because of that assumption, what bothered me is that you did not mention anything about the risks involved with ripping out sparrow nests... nor any mention of other options. My concern was that some readers might think you, a man of credibility, were tacitly acknowledging that ripping out nests might be the first line "preferred" procedure, since that is what the poster reported his habit to be.

I hope all is well now; and I think the thread has developed and progressed just fine. ~Dan

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Thanks, Dan, for the compliments. From my standpoint, its so difficult to say everything that new people need to learn, regretably, I sometimes leave out an important topic...

What I wish would happen is that more new people would learn to use the archives, there is so much info there

[Matt F.]

Hopefully someone will post a competent link regarding SPARROW'S REVENGE.

Dan,
Mike Scully has been compiling some very eye opening data, on the subject of sparrow revenge due to nest tear outs.

Here is the most recent post:
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13524

[martinteach]

At Smith Elementary, we have been ripping out the nests for 2 years. Although we don't have a handle on the sparrows yet (we are still working on different strategies), we have not had any eggs pecked for the last 2 years and our colony has doubled this year with now a total of 19 large nests.

For the first time this year, we did leave some damaged sparrow eggs behind (I think I shocked a few of my students....) and no sparrows have rebuilt in those nests...not sure what that means yet.

Daryle

[Guest]

What I wish would happen is that more new people would learn
to use the archives, there is so much info there

Along those lines Emil, maybe you can enlighten me. When I
use the search tool, it gives me TONS of results for a
particular phrase. Then when i click on one, and want to
proceed to the next, it is usually something unrelated, or I
find myself having to go back to search and retype the phrase
each time. Does anyone else know what Im talking about?

Maybe there could be a button like "take me back to results"
or something.

Also, sometimes the reason we newbies post new posts, rather
than relying on archival posts, is because we want the most
up-to-date info. Because as we all know, good info from 1999
may not be "good info" in 2009. And it is nice to get
different angles gleaned from a variety of posters.

Thanks for everyone being so patient with us too. It would
be so much more difficult without this forum for which (this
post reminded me) I just became a supporting member.

[geezer]

I don't believe this group has reached any type of consensus on the so-called "house sparrow revenge".

My personal belief.....if you see a house sparrow nest....rip it out. The martins NEED the space.

geezer

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Mary, I never use the search option, it doesn't seem to work well for me either. I too would want you to get the most recent info. The thing that is so obvious is that many of the questions that are asked are repeated a few times within a week or so, often only about 4 or 5 posts down.

Another thing, the archives and the most recent info are identical in most cases such as the trapping of sparrows, pole guards, the damage that snakes can do, cats, supplemental feeding, etc.

Also, the archives can provide the basic info, and then the reply does not need to be a mile long. There are so many things that need to be said, it seems like most answers cover only a portion of the needed info.

It would also help if the questions would be well reflected in the title of the post, then it would be easier to decide if it would pertain to you

The thing that I want to say is that we are here to help you, so if you have read the archives and don't understand what is meant, then please do ask questions. We want you to fully understand what this forum is trying to convey.

There is one area that has changed rapidly, and that is the shape, the attaching distances, the various designs of the SREH. It is still evolving, and there will be some new designs that will show up in the future. There is still this desire to get an SREH that the martins can enter, but the starlings cannot enter.


When I made that statement, it was intended to try to get people to read the archives, they are there for a reason, but it appears that some people have never read any part of them.

[Dan Drew]

.i

f you see a house sparrow nest....rip it out.

Geezer, think about adding these recitations:

"If you see a house sparrow nest, you have failed to eliminate the sparrows that built it."

"If you see a house sparrow nest, you should re-think your ELIMINATION PROGRAM."

"If you see a house sparrow nest, it is an opportunity to use a glue trap."

"If you see a house sparrow nest, put some of the nesting material in your near-by trap." [The stuff is supposed to attract sparrows better than bait alone.]

"If you see a house sparrow nest, ....[make up an elimination rule for your own site.]

So.... there are always new ways to think about things!

I'll repeat a rule I've been taught... and teach: S&S should be DISPATCHED TO BIRDIE HEAVEN and anything short of that is a compromise.

I am not opposed to compromises... as long as they are recognized as compromises... which means they fall short of the optimum results.

Just some thoughts.... meant to be taken in a positive light... with no intention to criticize anyone's teaching.

Regards to all! ~Dan