TRES ARE BACK

[KathyF]

Normajean,
Got pictures of your site? Maybe that will help. 3 acre pond??? wow!! that's cool! Is your pond surrounded by trees? Where's your martin housing?

BTW, don't worry about the length of the thread - I've seen them grow to 20 pages.

[Guest]

Kathy,
I do have pictures as I was going to send them to Brad and never did. Actually, I don't know how and have to depend on my husband.

[Dan Drew]

Norma Jean: It is normal to be a little "confused" when first studying the protocol. It is not written to be "simple" to understand. It is written to be thorough and to "undo" mistaken thinking. It is clear to me that you have carefully read most everything in this thread and that you are "thinking hard" on the subject. I have a sneaking suspicion, however, that you have NOT yet sat down with the protocol and studied it in detail!

The problem with learning about TS/PM interference from this thread is that it contains some FALSE information, (about the correct geometry) some unrelated and misdirected wisdom (about managing TS where there is no interest in martins,) and a couple of "reports of failures" which you might be tempted to use to justify further inaction.

To reduce the protocol to: "Put up a gourd or birdhouse and sit back and watch the show" is WRONG as you point out... but not for the reason you might think. It is WRONG because it is only a small part of the protocol. To test your understanding, I'd suggest we start with the question: HAVE YOU CLOSED ANY OF YOUR MARTIN HOUSING YET? and DO YOU STILL HAVE A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER YOU SHOULD MOVE THOSE TS OUT OF YOUR MARTIN HOUSING?

It is highly unlikely you will get martins if you allow your TS to stay where they are. But it sounds like you are well configured to get martins if you do the right thing to manage the TS interference and wait for "the right martin" to find your site protected from TS interference. There is enough good information on this thread (from Kathy and Louise) and in the protocol to help you do this. Please take the time to study it hard enough to eliminate the confusion. At some point it will become clear that there is NO "SIT BACK." There is, in fact, lots for you to do right now. There will be a "WATCH THE SHOW" but you will not be a passive onlooker. You must become an active manager of the process.

For Kathy & all ABOUT STARLINGS:

I'll bet it will take a VERY LONG time before BB (or TS) are equipped to handle Starlings and I NEVER expect them to develop a defense against sparrows. I have seen two sparrow attacks and the "results" of a couple of others. The are among the nastiest things I know of... and should remove any and all qualms about eliminating S&S using "whatever it takes."

I would put ZERO confidence in any report that suggests we can reduce our vigilance against S&S. The sparrows are busy breeding before, during, and after the TS & PM breeding season; so they are the most burdensome nuisance. Starlings are no less vicious and dangerous; but are less of a problem for two reasons:
1. SREH's really work and should be on all TS and BB housing as well as on PM housing.
2. The starling breeding season ends early in the TS/PM season; so their threat is more temporary... even though they should be eliminated whenever and wherever the are found. As for their nesting/breeding season, there is a "memory device" WHEN FULL FOLIAGE IS ACHIEVED, STARLING PRESSURE IS RELIEVED. I believe it applies generally in all latitudes and means that when the trees are fully covered with leaves, the starlings are no longer competing for nesting cavities. [But eliminate them anyway!]

Dan

[Dan Drew]

Norma Jean,

I just saw your photos... and had not yet seen them when writing the last post. There can be no doubt you have put out some martin-tempting housing. The tall trees are sometimes a problem. Martins are skiddish about tall trees for fear of predators. A rule of thumb is (if you are able) to keep your housing "out of the radius defined by the tree's height.: Converting this "engineer talk" to plain language: If the tree fell, it should not fall on you martin housing. However, there are plenty of successful martin colonies quite close to tall trees, homes, towers, etc.

It looks like Kathy is well along helping you; and she is a good teacher. I will be away from the computer for a while and will be eager to learn how things go. Kathy will probably want you guys to draw and scan a diagram of your place... and you might need to set up more than one TS/PM configuration since it looks like you have at least two separate PM rigs well apart from one another. I have successfully mentored two sites like yours, So take heart... and be ready to go to some trouble.... and know that getting martins will be well worth the trouble.

Good luck to you both. ~Dan

[KathyF]

Normajean,
Your site is beautiful! I would start with moving the gourd that the TRES are interested in to a shepherd's hook, and moving it five feet away from the martin housing per day until you reach the distances identified - 25' to 35'. If you don't get those TRES off your gourd rack, you won't have martins nesting there - guaranteed.

As for getting martins in your other house 'across the pond' with the gourds underneath, I see two things that might be an issue. One issue might be the trees - but it is hard to tell in the pictures... how close are the trees to that house? The second thing is that I have read in the PMCA's faq's that martins love to be near humans, so your house 'across the pond' may be too far away from your home to attract them.

Steps I would take:
1. Read the instructions here:http://www.drugfreeworkplace.com/~Dan/E ... gency.html
2. Get a shepherd's hook & start moving that gourd - or a couple of them - leaving the other house & gourd cavities plugged until you get those TRES moved the needed distance.
3. Once the TRES have committed to their new location & their gourd, start unplugging your other cavities.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Kathy

[Guest]

Thanks Kathy,

We moved the gourd closest to the house that has the TRES in it. I didn't realize you could have them so close yo your martins. They ran off a Starling this morning. I'll have to deal with that problem now.
On the other side of the pond, we had new TRES squabbling all day. My plan was to have all the TRES over on that side and Martins by our house. Now I realize the TRES need to be closer to the Martin housing. Could we just keep adding more housing for the TRES close to the Martin gourds and let the new flock stay on the other side? Also, the trees and little shed are not that close to the site. Wish I could afford a camera like Ron. I probably couldn't figure out how to use it anyway.
Let me know what you think.
Norma

[KathyF]

Could we just keep adding more housing for the TRES close to the Martin gourds and let the new flock stay on the other side? Also, the trees and little shed are not that close to the site. Wish I could afford a camera like Ron. I probably couldn't figure out how to use it anyway.
Let me know what you think.
Norma

Hi Norma,
TRES won't 'colony' nest like martins will. All your entrances to your other gourds and houses where you want the PMs to be should be plugged and the gourd for the TRES should be open and 25'-35' away from it.

TRES need a minimum of 100' from each other. If you want to allow more TRES to nest than the one pair you're dealing with, then I would place another single gourd 100' away from the gourd that you just moved.

As for the ones that are on the other side....it depends on what your goals are: If you want TRES to nest over there, then space single gourds 100' apart. If you let the TRES take over a nestbox in the house, then nothing else will nest in the house and it will be a waste of your money & space. Don't waste a house on a single TRES. Does that make sense?

Again, though - this all depends on what your goals are. I'm no expert on TRES - other than what I read. I don't know how a nesting site for multiple TRES 'across the pond' would affect your ability to get martins in your preferred area. Maybe Dan or others can weigh in on that if they've had experience with raising herds of TRES and Purple martins! I would be curious to see their input. I have 23 acres and have thought about putting up one of the TRES grids on the southern portion of my property...but hesitate, because I don't want to cause issues with my PM's.

I hope I answered your question...if not, let me know! I going to send you a private message too...so check that!